One for everyone but I'm particularly interested in what jem has to say given he's written the final song for one of them...
What are people's opinions on shows like the X Factor/Pop Idol etc etc?
I was sat there getting my haircut earlier and heard Alexandra singing "hallelujah"
and couldn't help but think what it would've been like had Eoghan or whatever his name was sang it...Yet it would have still been number one..
My personal opinion is that whilst it's brilliant for the people who win (how long that fame lasts for is a seperate discussion!) but it's not doing the industry and favours. I mean there's something not right when there's a guaranteed number one and you don't even know who's singing it yet! That can't be right! Things are changing all the time and no more than right now it would seem so how do people think these kinds of shows and their related 'guaranteed' success in the charts affects the industry and how people view the charts as a whole?
Just thought it would be a good topic for discussion :)
My thoughts on the matter are here:
http://www.jgnicholson.co.uk/blog/?p=40 (http://www.jgnicholson.co.uk/blog/?p=40)
Cheers,
Jack
Very well put sir :)
Couldn't have said it better myself!
I think ALL so called reality shows should be banned. They don't do anyone any favours in the long run and are probably more damaging for the people involved than if they never got an inkling of fame. The talent scouts should get off their backsides and go out and look for talent in the places where normal people spend years trying to achieve success. Humbug!
And while TOTP struggled to stay on air with less than a million viewers, these shows regularly pull in 7m.
Perhaps everyone else knows something we don't.
(Let us not forget that 'proper bands' who write their own songs may merely be a temporary aberration brought on by those scamps The Beatles.)
Quote from: "Nellie"I think ALL so called reality shows should be banned. They don't do anyone any favours in the long run and are probably more damaging for the people involved than if they never got an inkling of fame. The talent scouts should get off their backsides and go out and look for talent in the places where normal people spend years trying to achieve success. Humbug!
Well said I couldn't agree more
Quote from: "Nellie"the places where normal people spend years trying to achieve success.
Ah, but normal people don't spend years trying to achieve success. That's what makes them such appalling TV presences. Far better to have people the general public can engage with... ;-)
Jem described Elbows' Mercury Prize as giving hope that "we won't be absorbed by a tidal wave of tallentless teenagers " ...
Having said that, I'm sure he would be delighted to supply song after song to the winners of shows like X factor.
I have to say (though I really didnt watch it this year) I love X factor, it's great TV .. especially the deluded at the initial auditions .. train wreck TV at its best :D
It's a shame it's not a little more like American Idol, where they sing with a real band every week ... which I think is a bit more challenging than a backing track.
As for its use as a talent contest ... why not ? TV talent contests have delivered many performers to us in the past 25 years. Yes it's a short cut, avoiding years spent in smelly rehearsal rooms and toilet gigs before getting a break .. but why not ? We live in an immediate society now, why not immediate stars. This years winner certainly has a great voice.
I do think it's a great shame that so many covers are used for singles though, where's the value in that other than being a monster paying number one ;)
I would have to say that my only real problem with the X Factor is the total lack of imagination shown in choosing the winners single. Oh, and wosername miming. Whatever message does that send out?
I have to agree that we have had some world class stars come out of X Factor and similar programmes. Look at Kelly Clarkson from USA, she has global success, as well as Leona Lewis from the UK. We then see some country specific stars like Girls Aloud who are doing extremely well here in the UK. And then we get the total flops... Gareth Gates, Steve Brocken-whatever his name was, and the soon to be totally unknown JLS...
I agree we live in an instant culture - we want it and we want it now. But 'real' music (the music WE love, otherwise we wouldn't be here on this forum!) is begining to conform to the we want it now attitude. Bands are coming up with really imaginative ways of releasing music, utilising the digital world to their advatage. And we're just at the beginning of it.
So watch out X-Factor, the 'real music' is answering back!
Quote from: "Dave M"Jem described Elbows' Mercury Prize as giving hope that "we won't be absorbed by a tidal wave of tallentless teenagers " ...
To be fair though, the Mercury Music Prize is somewhat removed from the likes of the X Factor - no talentless teenagers are ever nominated so some proper musicians are guaranteed to win!
Not to take away from Elbow whose win was completely deserved! :D
Is there an X-Factor-alike, but for people with musical talent, like whole bands and the like?
Quote from: "Drarok"Is there an X-Factor-alike, but for people with musical talent, like whole bands and the like?
Channel 4 do a "talent" style show with the T4 Orange unsigned Act but that is for the "Hip n Trendy youngsters, with "presenters" and musicians making acerbic and supposedly witty remarks.....
Quote from: "Drarok"Is there an X-Factor-alike, but for people with musical talent, like whole bands and the like?
There's Summer's End....but they never seem to announce the winners.... :)
well i have to say, to those who are 'dissillutioned' with the charts these days.... have you heard most pop music over the last decade??? on the majority it's been designed to appeal to kids of folk who don't know better... so x factor is a natural progression... however i don't mind it one bit.
hell i've even entered it this year cause i've been singing for the last 10 years locally, i've been told i'm pretty good. so why not let something like x factor get me further in the business. all's fair in love and war, and music is my love!
i sing karaoke so who cares if your singing other folks songs. i bet the artists are getting thier royalties it so everyone's a winner
if i want to listen to good music, i'll stick on my EIMA and chill. :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
Quote from: "Equinox"well i have to say, to those who are 'dissillutioned' with the charts these days.... have you heard most pop music over the last decade??? on the majority it's been designed to appeal to kids of folk who don't know better.
I think for the last forty or so years actually...
But pop is just brilliant at disposable innovations and hooks. I'd rather be stuck with Kylie's Showgirl DVD than Yes 9012Live any day.
"disposable innovations"
what does that even mean? :?
Quote from: "XeRocks81""disposable innovations"
what does that even mean? :?
LOL
I guess it refers to all those one-use sounds that made pop hits 'catch your ear' but then couldn't be used again because their so distinctive. Perhaps like that 'stoppy-starty' guitar that Madonna used, or even ItBites' "Dumbry-umbry-ay-oh". Brilliant, ear-catching but can't be used again.
That's my guess anyway.... :D
Quote from: "Pedro"Quote from: "XeRocks81""disposable innovations"
what does that even mean? :?
LOL
I guess it refers to all those one-use sounds that made pop hits 'catch your ear' but then couldn't be used again because their so distinctive. Perhaps like that 'stoppy-starty' guitar that Madonna used, or even ItBites' "Dumbry-umbry-ay-oh". Brilliant, ear-catching but can't be used again.
That's my guess anyway.... :D
or more fitting... mr blobby... barbie girl... crazy frog... need i go on...
Quote from: "Equinox"Quote from: "Pedro"Quote from: "XeRocks81""disposable innovations"
what does that even mean? :?
LOL
I guess it refers to all those one-use sounds that made pop hits 'catch your ear' but then couldn't be used again because their so distinctive. Perhaps like that 'stoppy-starty' guitar that Madonna used, or even ItBites' "Dumbry-umbry-ay-oh". Brilliant, ear-catching but can't be used again.
That's my guess anyway.... :D
or more fitting... mr blobby... barbie girl... crazy frog... need i go on...
You're so clever Pedders.
Quote from: "Equinox"or more fitting... mr blobby... barbie girl... crazy frog... need i go on...
Why 'more fitting'?
(And leave Aqua alone! Some of their second album was just brilliant.)
Quote from: "tomskerous"I'd rather be stuck with Kylie's Showgirl DVD than Yes 9012Live any day.
Oh, I don't know- there's plenty of entertainment to be had from both of those.
In defense of 9012Live there's Trevor's hair, or Jon's costume; or even Tony's comedy shorts. The only thing that could possibly make it funnier would be Steve Howe doing somersaults in a spandex Spiderman outfit.
Quote from: "Nellie"Quote from: "Equinox"Quote from: "Pedro"Quote from: "XeRocks81""disposable innovations"
what does that even mean? :?
LOL
I guess it refers to all those one-use sounds that made pop hits 'catch your ear' but then couldn't be used again because their so distinctive. Perhaps like that 'stoppy-starty' guitar that Madonna used, or even ItBites' "Dumbry-umbry-ay-oh". Brilliant, ear-catching but can't be used again.
That's my guess anyway.... :D
or more fitting... mr blobby... barbie girl... crazy frog... need i go on...
You're so clever Pedders.
Or even that buggering 'My voice has been pitch corrected beyond belief so I sound like a robot' sound that you would of thought would have stopped with Cher's 'Believe'
It can currently be found in most of today's chart R&B music which seems bizzare given its distinctive gimmicky sound!
I guess some of them make it through!
Quote from: "tomskerous"(And leave Aqua alone! Some of their second album was just brilliant.)
Some of their first album was too... :D I bet there's no other prog forum I could get away with writing that on.
Or indeed any other forum at all!
Quote from: "Geetar"In defense of 9012Live there's Trevor's hair, or Jon's costume; or even Tony's comedy shorts. The only thing that could possibly make it funnier would be Steve Howe doing somersaults in a spandex Spiderman outfit.
:lol:
I really can't think of anything to add to that! Genious!
Quote from: "Drarok"Is there an X-Factor-alike, but for people with musical talent, like whole bands and the like?
Frost* at the Peel?
Quote from: "Mikey"Quote from: "Drarok"Is there an X-Factor-alike, but for people with musical talent, like whole bands and the like?
Frost* at the Peel?
And lo, Lawnmower was found! :D
Quote from: "Mikey"Quote from: "Drarok"Is there an X-Factor-alike, but for people with musical talent, like whole bands and the like?
Frost* at the Peel?
WORD!
I am very distressed when X Factor, Strictly and all the others are not on as my Mum absolutely loves them and she is always available to babysit :lol:
Don't forget That's my Goal etc funds the hobby that is Frost* so it can't be that bad.
I started getting annoyed with manufactured pop in the SAW days, it all seemed to be a bit 1984, you know that machine that generated the pop music but now I haven't got a clue about what is in the charts, I am not such a snob about it.
Quote from: "johninblack"I would have to say that my only real problem with the X Factor is the total lack of imagination shown in choosing the winners single. Oh, and wosername miming. Whatever message does that send out?
It sent out a great message! Everyone I spoke to was SO disappointed that she mimed and it gave such a great contrast between having seen people singing totally live, accompanied by nothing, then just a piano, then finally backing tracks and seeing someone dance embarassingly and not sing.
IMO these shows are great because they inspire people to sing and get into music at any level; they also expose young people to music they might not hear anywhere else (Beatles night, Abba night etc etc) and they feature lots and lots and lots of advice for commion problems singers face from the very top of the industry. Not everyone has access to weekly appraisal's with the likes of Simon Cowell and so on.
My only criticism is that so far its produced several great singers (Alexandra and Leona especially), some very good singers (I really really like Leon but wouldn't call him a great singer), but it hasn't yet produced any truly great music (sorry Jem). Leon's latest song is pretty cool but nothing groundbreaking.
Anything that gets seven million people a week watching live talented singers is good by me.
So with all this enthusiasm for the weekly struggles of singers, why on earth don't they find a formula that works for new bands?
Something along the lines of: you get a subject to write a 3min 05 song about, in 4/4, 12/8 or summat like that (13/8 ?). You have to use a particular set of words in the lyrics, and you can't use an existing song by your band.
It has to include a middle eight, and be playable on Radio One or its ilk.
Got to be do-able. But then, maybe I'm mad.
Actually, no maybe about it.
But where's the jeopardy, the personal struggle?
(I tried to get something like this commissioned by the BBC about two years ago, and came within a whisker. But it would have been very hard to keep the show entertaining with all that 'craft' floating about.)
Yes :lol: the bands need to have a personal struggle that they overcame to be there as per Peter Kay
Just make one of the bands an all-female one. Then throw in a couple of cute blokes as backing vocalists and have the girls start fighting over them. That's got to be close enough to the popular kind of "reality" television for people to watch it?
Quote from: "tomskerous"But where's the jeopardy, the personal struggle?
(I tried to get something like this commissioned by the BBC about two years ago, and came within a whisker. But it would have been very hard to keep the show entertaining with all that 'craft' floating about.)
There was a touch of what you're suggesting there in 'Fame Academy' - which was all round a lot more interesting thean X-Factor / Pop Idol.
Which explains why it got cancelled. :roll:
Quote from: "LivingForever"Quote from: "tomskerous"But where's the jeopardy, the personal struggle?
(I tried to get something like this commissioned by the BBC about two years ago, and came within a whisker. But it would have been very hard to keep the show entertaining with all that 'craft' floating about.)
There was a touch of what you're suggesting there in 'Fame Academy' - which was all round a lot more interesting thean X-Factor / Pop Idol.
Which explains why it got cancelled. :roll:
And I actually like Sinead Quinn more than anyone that's ever come out of X-factor
Quote from: "MikeEvs"Quote from: "LivingForever"Quote from: "tomskerous"But where's the jeopardy, the personal struggle?
(I tried to get something like this commissioned by the BBC about two years ago, and came within a whisker. But it would have been very hard to keep the show entertaining with all that 'craft' floating about.)
There was a touch of what you're suggesting there in 'Fame Academy' - which was all round a lot more interesting thean X-Factor / Pop Idol.
Which explains why it got cancelled. :roll:
And I actually like Sinead Quinn more than anyone that's ever come out of X-factor
my personal fave is will young. fantastic
Quote from: "Equinox"my personal fave is will young. fantastic
Likewise, it's ironic that his and my least favourite release was the first one (Evergreen?) that had the biggest impact on the charts. Since he's been doing what he wants to do I've really liked his work.
Still find it amazing that he works with Nitin Sawhney.
Who, I've just realised nobody has discussed on here yet! Thoughts everyone?
(Me, I'll put my hand up for the 'godlike genius' camp)
Will Young's band are awesome!