From the BBC press office.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/pressoffice/progin ... cfour_rock (http://www.bbc.co.uk/pressoffice/proginfo/tv/wk52/bbc_four.shtml#bbcfour_rock)
Prog Rock Brittania –
An Observation In Three Movements
Friday 2 January
10.00-11.30pm BBC FOUR
Prog Rock Britannia is the first comprehensive, feature-length documentary about progressive music and the generation of bands that made it – from the international success stories of Yes, Genesis, ELP, King Crimson and Jethro Tull, to the trials and tribulations of lesser-known bands such as Caravan and Egg.
Narrated by Nigel Planer, the film is structured in three parts – charting the birth, rise and decline of a movement famed for complex musical structures, weird time signatures, technical virtuosity and strange – quintessentially English – literary influences.
It looks at the psychedelic pop scene that gave birth to progressive rock in the late Sixties, the golden age of progressive music in the early Seventies – complete with drum solos and gatefold record sleeves – and the over-ambition, commercialisation and eventual fall from grace of this rarefied musical experiment at the hands of punk in 1977.
The documentary is a provocative, humorous but affectionate re-appraisal of a music that was the value system of an all-too-brief period in British popular music.
Contributors include Robert Wyatt, Mike Oldfield, Pete Sinfield, Rick Wakeman, Phil Collins, Arthur Brown, Carl Palmer and Ian Anderson.
Interesting - thanks for that!
However, it will no doubt result in Frost*ies throwing things at the TV when it predictably concludes that all prog died in 1977 as a result of punk... :roll:
Before that, from 9-10 there's an hour called 'Prog at the BBC' with live music from Genesis, Yes, and more!
Quote from: "LivingForever"Before that, from 9-10 there's an hour called 'Prog at the BBC' with live music from Arena, Frost* IQ, Darwin's Radio, Credo and more!
Oh no, of course there won't, prog died in '77 these bands don't exist........stoopid me ;)
Quote from: "D S"Interesting - thanks for that!
However, it will no doubt result in Frost*ies throwing things at the TV when it predictably concludes that all prog died in 1977 as a result of punk... :roll:
But as anyone with any knowledge knows, Prog didn't die as a result of punk. It's a big media myth, in fact punk wasn't a revolt against prog at all
It looks to me as if this will pretty much be what you might expect really... from Nigel Planer, presumably chosen due to his hilarious turn as Neil in the Young Ones and the cast of luminaries (what price Rick Wakemen regaling us with stores of eating curry whilst performing Tales from Topographic Oceans...again !) weighing in with their tongue in cheek observations.
Why not, for example, Steven Wilson, Mikael Åkerfeldt, Thom Yorke or our own dear Jem G ?
I'm sure it'll be a bout of post-modern meedja sneering that'll pretty much get up the nose of any decent forward thinking music fan, inc I assume most of the regulars on this board.
I'd avoid the upset if I were you.
Quote from: "Bert"I'd avoid the upset if I were you.
Nooooo! More vitriol to throw at the bloody hobbits :twisted: :twisted: :twisted:
I actually (as most of you know) like an awful lot of "Old Prog". It's really good to listen to it, BUT, it's all about progression. To use it as an influence is great, to copy it is not, so come on hobbits, a challenge. Progress your minds, you never know you might actually enjoy some of this modern prog. ;)
Quote from: "Bert"I'd avoid the upset if I were you.
Nooooo! More vitriol to throw at the bloody hobbits :twisted: :twisted: :twisted:
I actually (as most of you know) like an awful lot of "Old Prog". It's really good to listen to it, BUT, it's all about progression. To use it as an influence is great, to copy it is not, so come on hobbits, a challenge. Progress your minds, you never know you might actually enjoy some of this modern prog. ;)
Double post, sorry. It's these blasted internal server errors. :evil:
Quote from: "Bert"It looks to me as if this will pretty much be what you might expect really... from Nigel Planer, presumably chosen due to his hilarious turn as Neil in the Young Ones and the cast of luminaries (what price Rick Wakemen regaling us with stores of eating curry whilst performing Tales from Topographic Oceans...again !) weighing in with their tongue in cheek observations.
Why not, for example, Steven Wilson, Mikael Åkerfeldt, Thom Yorke or our own dear Jem G ?
I'm sure it'll be a bout of post-modern meedja sneering that'll pretty much get up the nose of any decent forward thinking music fan, inc I assume most of the regulars on this board.
I'd avoid the upset if I were you.
I totally agree - it will be sh*t, anything the beeb has produced related to prog has been sh*t, it has the same old same olds talking the same old sh*t about sh*t.
The end :D
It's a shame the people that make these programmes didn't do a bit more research instead of just following the old urban myth (yawn).
Perhaps they'd then see that prog never went away, I mean immediately after punk happened one of the biggest prog albums ever occured - 'The Wall' anybody? Wonder if they'll mention that... and where are all these punk bands now, eh?
It'd be great if just once they'd show today's abeit underground (for want of a better word) prog scene and the enthusiasm there is for it.
I'll probably watch it, for the footage if nothing else, but no doubt it'll be the same old, same old..... ah well.
Wow, you guys must be spoiled with prog-related programming on television. I wouldn't care one bit what was being said about any of the music - the mere mention of these bands on the telly would be a miracle here*.
*"Here" not being entirely true as I'm currently in London. But let's pretend I'm back home in Sweden, typing this.
Um, you have to remember that the exec producers and commisisoners of these shows are all in their early 50s - when they were in their teenage years, what big musical change was happening? That was the best music of their lives - hence the predominant punk agenda on BBC music TV.
I bet one hundred of the queen's pounds they reference ELP's juggernauts across the US and Jon Anderson's silly lyrics - yawn Zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz
I think I should stand up for the people and approach the beeb about making a relevant program about prog today - who's with me??
Quote from: "Lerxst"I think I should stand up for the people and approach the beeb about making a relevant program about prog today - who's with me??
So who do we start sending emails to then?
Quote from: "johninblack"Quote from: "Lerxst"I think I should stand up for the people and approach the beeb about making a relevant program about prog today - who's with me??
So who do we start sending emails to then?
I'm in !!!
Quote from: "Bert"Quote from: "johninblack"Quote from: "Lerxst"I think I should stand up for the people and approach the beeb about making a relevant program about prog today - who's with me??
So who do we start sending emails to then?
I'm in !!!
Moi aussi!
(Bert: dew yew keep a troshin)
Quote from: "Hemispherical Walter"(Bert: dew yew keep a troshin)
Actually Bert dosn't have much of an accent, I on the other hand speak very broad Norwich, not to be confused with the much slower and whit filled Norfolk accent.
Quote from: "johninblack"Quote from: "Hemispherical Walter"(Bert: dew yew keep a troshin)
Actually Bert dosn't have much of an accent, I on the other hand speak very broad Norwich, not to be confused with the much slower and whit filled Norfolk accent.
Me neither. Even though I lived in Norwich/Norfolk for 30+ years (and now find myself back here again for a while) I never picked up much of a local accent.
I'm born and breed in Norwich so there's no bloody hope for me! When I was at first and middle school (a very long time ago) there was hardly anyone without a local accent so we all talked with very similar accents given that that was what we were subjected to. Strangely I can't recall any of the teachers WITH a local accent.
Quote from: "johninblack"I'm born and breed in Norwich so there's no bloody hope for me! When I was at first and middle school (a very long time ago) there was hardly anyone without a local accent so we all talked with very similar accents given that that was what we were subjected to. Strangely I can't recall any of the teachers WITH a local accent.
No, me neither! All my schooling was in the 60s/70s in Sprowston and local accents were unheard amongst the staff (by my recollection).
Quote from: "Hemispherical Walter"Quote from: "johninblack"I'm born and breed in Norwich so there's no bloody hope for me! When I was at first and middle school (a very long time ago) there was hardly anyone without a local accent so we all talked with very similar accents given that that was what we were subjected to. Strangely I can't recall any of the teachers WITH a local accent.
No, me neither! All my schooling was in the 60s/70s in Sprowston and local accents were unheard amongst the staff (by my recollection).
Sprowston! Posh schools! I was one of the Earlham hooligans.......
Quote from: "johninblack"Quote from: "Hemispherical Walter"Quote from: "johninblack"I'm born and breed in Norwich so there's no bloody hope for me! When I was at first and middle school (a very long time ago) there was hardly anyone without a local accent so we all talked with very similar accents given that that was what we were subjected to. Strangely I can't recall any of the teachers WITH a local accent.
No, me neither! All my schooling was in the 60s/70s in Sprowston and local accents were unheard amongst the staff (by my recollection).
Sprowston! Posh schools! I was one of the Earlham hooligans.......
"Was"?
Quote from: "Hemispherical Walter""Was"?
Yes, was. It got worse, I'm now a Bowthorpe hooligan.
Quote from: "Hemispherical Walter"Quote from: "johninblack"Quote from: "Hemispherical Walter"(Bert: dew yew keep a troshin)
Actually Bert dosn't have much of an accent, I on the other hand speak very broad Norwich, not to be confused with the much slower and whit filled Norfolk accent.
Me neither. Even though I lived in Norwich/Norfolk for 30+ years (and now find myself back here again for a while) I never picked up much of a local accent.
Hello. I kind of had it trained out of me as my parents seemed embarrassed by the accent, although I never understood why. I love the Norfolk (and Norwich) accents. There's a whole rich phraseology attached to it too and as such it's a real rich regional dialect. It is probably possible for two native speakers to speak such that no one from somewhere else in the country would have a clue what they were speaking about.
When I was at school, I used to spend my holidays working on a farm, and by the end of the summer, in particular, I would have a thick Norfolk accent and a a load of phrases that no one else knew the meaning of.
In the company of good-old Norfolk boys, I do slip back into it very easily.
Wow! And there was me thinking this was a band forum ! :-)
So for the record, I grew up (and have just returned to actually) just south of Norwich and went to school in Wymondham. Them City schools were too scary !!
My granny was from Darkest Thetford and had a bit of an accent.
She used to wash her hands with soup, wore a fur stool around her neck, and put cool on her fire, bless her.
my brother has a really thick birmingham accent. I dont have much of any kind of accent really. I pick up whosever accent i am with, which is embarrasing when people think i'm taking the mick! My dad doesnt have much of an accent and my mum is german, perhaps that has something to do with it.
Quote from: "catherine"My granny was from Darkest Thetford and had a bit of an accent.
She used to wash her hands with soup, wore a fur stool around her neck, and put cool on her fire, bless her.
Thetford ? Blimey (sharp intake of breath). The badlands :-)
I know, but my mum's from Yorkshire so I'm OK really!
Quote from: "catherine"I know, but my mum's from Yorkshire so I'm OK really!
I'm not sure that carries sufficient counterweight... but we'll give you the benefit of the doubt :D
Thanks! (relieved) :D
:-)
Actually, I didn't get the "fur stool round her neck" bit. Can you translate ?
It was a fur stole - a sort of scarf thing.
She was very fond of her fur stool, and threatened to leave it to me in her will. Not sure what happened to it - it's almost 20 years since she died and I've managed to avoid it so far.
Quote from: "Bert"Hello. I kind of had it trained out of me as my parents seemed embarrassed by the accent, although I never understood why. I love the Norfolk (and Norwich) accents. There's a whole rich phraseology attached to it too and as such it's a real rich regional dialect. It is probably possible for two native speakers to speak such that no one from somewhere else in the country would have a clue what they were speaking about.
When I was at school, I used to spend my holidays working on a farm, and by the end of the summer, in particular, I would have a thick Norfolk accent and a a load of phrases that no one else knew the meaning of.
In the company of good-old Norfolk boys, I do slip back into it very easily.
Wow! And there was me thinking this was a band forum ! :-)
So for the record, I grew up (and have just returned to actually) just south of Norwich and went to school in Wymondham. Them City schools were too scary !!
Did you mean......
Quote from: "Burt"halloo. OI kind f had tha' trained ou' f me bairn uz moi parents seemed embarrassed by thur accen', although OI navver understood why. OI love thur norfook (and norridge) accents. There's a whole rich phraseology attached to tha' anarl and bairn uz such it's a real rich regional dialec'. tha' is probablie possible for two nair'av speakers to speak such tha noo one from somewhere alss in thur country would hev a clue waa thay were speakin' abou'.
When OI woos a' school, OI used to spend moi holidays workin' on a farm, and by thur end f thur summer, in particular, OI would hev a thick norfook accen' and a a lood f phrases tha noo one alss knew thur meanin' f.
In thur company f good-old norfook boys, OI do slip back into tha' very easilie.
Wow! And there woos me thinkin' this woos a band forum ! :-)
So for thur record, OI grew up (and hev jist retoorned to actuallie) jist south f norridge and wen' to school in Wymondham. Them City schools were anarl scary !!
Note to Philadelphia: You thought the Yorkshire dialect was incomprehensible.....
Quote from: "johninblack,
Did you mean......
[quote="Burt"halloo. OI kind f had tha' trained ou' f me bairn uz moi parents seemed embarrassed by thur accen', although OI navver understood why. OI love thur norfook (and norridge) accents. There's a whole rich phraseology attached to tha' anarl and bairn uz such it's a real rich regional dialec'. tha' is probablie possible for two nair'av speakers to speak such tha noo one from somewhere alss in thur country would hev a clue waa thay were speakin' abou'.
When OI woos a' school, OI used to spend moi holidays workin' on a farm, and by thur end f thur summer, in particular, OI would hev a thick norfook accen' and a a lood f phrases tha noo one alss knew thur meanin' f.
In thur company f good-old norfook boys, OI do slip back into tha' very easilie.
Wow! And there woos me thinkin' this woos a band forum ! :-)
So for thur record, OI grew up (and hev jist retoorned to actuallie) jist south f norridge and wen' to school in Wymondham. Them City schools were anarl scary !!
[/quote]
LOL JiB, that's f*****g genius ! :D
Nice little Norfolk accent page on Wikipedia:
//http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Norfolk_dialect
Quote from: "Hemispherical Walter"Nice little Norfolk accent page on Wikipedia:
//http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Norfolk_dialect
Cool HW, thanks !
I think we could mount an East Anglian (past/present) coup of this board !
Quote from: "Bert"I think we could mount an East Anglian (past/present) coup of this board !
There nothing wrong with honoring ones ancestry, history, culture, dialect. They are all good references whilst taking your own life forward. After all, those gone before made us and our country what it is today...........
Bastards
Quote from: "johninblack"Quote from: "Bert"I think we could mount an East Anglian (past/present) coup of this board !
There nothing wrong with honoring ones ancestry, history, culture, dialect. They are all good references whilst taking your own life forward. After all, those gone before made us and our country what it is today...........Bastards
The inbreeding might be a barrier; I mean, it's not to Fen standards (they all have six toes on their left hands) but we might get accused of nepotism!
Well I just watched it and imagine my surprise how sh*t it was.....
Quote from: "Lerxst"Well I just watched it and imagine my surprise how sh*t it was.....
I did too, and it was exactly as I thought it would be.
The shock for me was the statement that Thick as a Brick was considered to be THE definitive prog album. It's not even the definitive Tull album FFS !!
Grrrr...
I promised myself I wouldn't get angry, but... :twisted:
That's a relief.
I completely forgot it was Friday yesterday and spent most of the evening being thrashed by Mrs Hippo at Wii-tennis/golf/whatever.
'brick' was written to take the mick put of prog.
I didn't bother watching it. 'progressive' is a term that does no one any favours.
A band like yes are seen as a bit of a joke where as led zep are seen as close to god.
Zep have had their proggy moments but never got the prog tag.
Most music critics know jack IMO.
In the cold light of saturday morning, I can re-confirm it was a shi*ty, sh*t waste pipe of sh*t.
The one consolation in the pre-documentary prog music footage was a repeat of King Crimson on the OGWT peforming "Frame by Frame", which was brilliant!
I saw Nigel Planer on breakfast (allegedly whilst I was working), was put off by the fact he was talking as if someone else had presented the programme. Not a good sign.
Doesn't sound like it's worth watching
Quote from: "Bert"Quote from: "Lerxst"Well I just watched it and imagine my surprise how sh*t it was.....
I did too, and it was exactly as I thought it would be.
The shock for me was the statement that Thick as a Brick was considered to be THE definitive prog album. It's not even the definitive Tull album FFS !!
Grrrr...
I promised myself I wouldn't get angry, but... :twisted:
Yeah they do have a problem with getting their facts right, I noticed they also said JT closed the 1970 IW festival when they were actually 5th on the bill that day.
(takes pedant head off!)
It was a bit same old, same old wasn't it, surprised that Floyd hardly got a mention though as usually the great god Floyd seems to be all over these kinda programmes, not that it bothered me.
The thing that I find annoying is their supposition that by the mid 80's prog had died :roll: , I just wish they'd finish the story properly and show the current scene and that prog is alive a well in it's various forms, with a worldwide albeit 'select' audience.
I quite enjoyed the Prog at the BBC thing before it though a few good clips in there, nice to see Caravan and Crimson.
So many clips etc from so many other programmes zzzzz It was as expected and that made me angry.
I know it will do no good but there is a small spleen vent here on the BBC complaints page (//http://www.bbc.co.uk/complaints/complaints_stage1.shtml).
IMHO it was actually quite good. It was a fairly honest look at what it was during those days. Yeah, some of the facts were wrong and saying that Jethro Tull's Thick As A Brick is the definitive progalbum was a bit laughable but it was their (the producers / writers of this program) opinion which I can respect. The problem is of course that it was presented as fact not as opinion.
There were however two things I had a bit of problem with:
1. IIRC the Moody Blues weren't mentioned at all. It was presented that it sorta all began with Procol Harum and Shine On Brightly with the long suite at the end of the album. Luckily Gary Brooker put it very well: "If we weren't doing it somebody else would have done it.... a few weeks later". And yes, The Moody Blues didn't do such a thing but Days Of Future Passed could be seen as a long suite and it was conceptual by nature. And that was an album from 1967. A year later they came with In Search Of The Lost Chord (a term that was actually used several times during this show but with no reference at all to the Moody Blues) with its psychedelic overtones but also the 11 minute plus long House Of Four Doors 1 / Legend Of A Mind / House Of Four Doors 2 suite. Heck, King Crimson actually went to Decca first when they were looking for a record contract and they have worked with Moody Blues producer Tony Clarke in the studio (alas those tapes apparently don't exist anymore) but that didn't work out in the end.
Well, the editorial content was - as would be expected - complete pants. What was interesting was the opinions of the musicians themselves (and not just the usual suspects).
There were plenty of clips that we'd seen before, but also loads of Canterbury Scene stuff that I wasn't familiar with.
I agree that the gem of the evening was Crimson's Frame by Frame on OGWT; but seeing Yes in their prime; doing Yours is no Disgrace confirmed for me that that was the pinnacle of musical excellence :)
And by the way: Haven't ELP dated very badly?
I watched it for John as he was in bed.
I quite enjoyed it.
As for the information I would have no idea whether it was correct or not but as a programme about "Prog" it was amusingly enjoyable.
No mention about modern prog was exactly as I expected, come on peeps did you really expect that, it is the BBC you know! :D
Lets see what comes out over the rest of the week.
There are some details of the upcoming programmes here :-
http://www.bbc.co.uk/musictv/progbritannia/ (http://www.bbc.co.uk/musictv/progbritannia/)
Just watched it via the on demand thinggy.
I also quite enjoyed it. It was more chat than music, which wasn't a bad thing IMHO. I feel I learned something and definitely saw some footage I'd never seen before.
What we should not forget here is that within this little corner of the interweb dwells a group of people who have massed a knowledge of the subject in question which anyone would have trouble fitting into a thirteen week series let alone a 90 min "special".
I agreed with the comments re. the demise of the gatefold LP sleeve. Poring over said item was one of the pleasures of buying and owning the music all those years ago. It sort of made you feel closer to the band in some way. CDs just don't have that effect.
However, I then got thinking about Frost*. I have never felt so "close" to a band as I do with Frost*. There has been "The View from The Cube" and more significantly the video blogs of the making of EIMA. I can honestly say that all the Brom household know about Jem and his antics, but they couldn't tell you who played bass on Dark Side of the Moon. This works then, a lot better than a gatefold sleeve so it seems, of course as long as the people behind it make the effort! :D
Have to agree with you there Brom, we still get our gate-fold experience thanks to Jem.
Actually, I correct an earlier post. It did have something new in the form of the bloke from Egg who scared me somewhat especially with his comparison to a three year old dying from malnutrition :shock: Not sure that not getting commercial success is on a par with that.
I didn't see this thread before watching the program.
Maybe if I'd been forewarned I wouldn't have been shouting at the TV by the end of it... :(
Quote from: "Lerxst"I bet one hundred of the queen's pounds they reference ELP's juggernauts across the US and Jon Anderson's silly lyrics - yawn Zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz
Hey, whaddaya know? They did!!
Quote from: "Sarah"Actually, I correct an earlier post. It did have something new in the form of the bloke from Egg who scared me somewhat especially with his comparison to a three year old dying from malnutrition :shock: Not sure that not getting commercial success is on a par with that.
He wasn't just talking about commercial succes but actually about any recognition, some notoriety, some form of positive feedback. Those were the real pre-internet days and there were no online guestbooks or forums anywhere.
I watched the Genesis Rome concert last night, and being a Genesis fanboy in my youth up to and including the Duke era, I was appalled to see how tame and limp it all seemed IMHO. I know some of you Frost*ies spent hard-earned wads seeing them in 2007, and I'm sure it seemed a lot more dramatic actually seeing it in person, but the playing and the performance seemed so pedestrian (even accounting for Phil Collins' advancing years!).
I actually enjoyed watching the third section more, where you saw the band rehearsing and the lighting and stage being designed. At least I got the feeling that they were in a pressure situation, with the poor lighting bod who had been employed as a 'button-pusher' 3 days before the first gig trying to hit his cues in the Domino vid seqence, and Mike Rutherford sounding more and more pompously country squire-like the more he got annoyed!
Sorry but it had to be said. ;)
Quote from: "sawtooth"I watched the Genesis Rome concert last night, and being a Genesis fanboy in my youth up to and including the Duke era, I was appalled to see how tame and limp it all seemed IMHO. I know some of you Frost*ies spent hard-earned wads seeing them in 2007, and I'm sure it seemed a lot more dramatic actually seeing it in person, but the playing and the performance seemed so pedestrian (even accounting for Phil Collins' advancing years!).
I actually enjoyed watching the third section more, where you saw the band rehearsing and the lighting and stage being designed. At least I got the feeling that they were in a pressure situation, with the poor lighting bod who had been employed as a 'button-pusher' 3 days before the first gig trying to hit his cues in the Domino vid seqence, and Mike Rutherford sounding more and more pompously country squire-like the more he got annoyed!
Sorry but it had to be said. ;)
Have to say we were watching as well and did comment that some of it seemed a bit lame, I gotta say having seen them at Twickers last Summer it definately wasn't like that in the flesh. One of the troubles tends to be Banker's choice of keyboard sounds in recent times... the words Argos & Casio spring to mind.
So how horrible was that TimeShift prog programme on Saturday, what a rotten bunch of 'talking heads' they dug up for that, they all seemed to hate prog! What did they bother talking to Peely for, it's well documented that he didn't like prog.
I did enjoy the ELP thing on Saturday though, I remember watching that the first time round when I were but a nipper.
I haven't had chance to see all of the BBC's Progumentary (ahem) yet, but the bit I saw didn't seem anywhere near as patronishing, stupid and ill-informed as I'd expected. But I only got as far as 1970, so perhaps things took a turn for the worse after that.
Pertinent comment on the blog of Rock journalist Dave Ling about the programmes:
http://www.daveling.co.uk/diary.htm (http://www.daveling.co.uk/diary.htm)
As for Genesis 2007, I didn't see them in the flesh, and I quite liked the live album / DVD in parts. So what do I know...
Cheers
David
Ooooh, I meant to say, it was nice to get a 'shout out' from Gabe in the Genesis IKWIL clips :D :lol:
Quote from: "ChrisX"it was their (the producers / writers of this program) opinion which I can respect.
Ah, well I spent many years working with the Exec Producer. So I can't.
QuoteThe problem is of course that it was presented as fact not as opinion.
Yup, sounds about right. ;-)
Quote from: "ChrisX"The problem is of course that it was presented as fact not as opinion.
Quote from: "tomskerous"Yup, sounds about right. ;-)
Ah.. but did you know that The Elfstedentocht (English translation: "Journey of Eleven Cities") is a speed skating competition and leisure skating tour held irregularly in the province of Friesland, Netherlands.
The tour, almost 200 km in length, is conducted on frozen canals, rivers and lakes between the eleven Frisian cities: Leeuwarden, Sneek, IJlst, Sloten, Stavoren, Hindeloopen, Workum, Bolsward, Harlingen, Franeker, Dokkum and finally again Leeuwarden. The tour is not held every year, mostly because not every Dutch winter permits skating on natural ice. Adding to that, the tour currently features about 15,000 amateur skaters taking part, putting high requirements on the quality of the ice. There is a stated regulatory requirement for the race to take place that the ice must be (and remain at) a minimum thickness of 15 centimetres along the entirety of the course.
There are likely to be points along the route where the ice is too thin to allow mass skating, or where there is some other problem (e.g., there is actually an organisation "Committee Elfsteden Nee" that is opposed to the race and sabotaged the route in 1997 by laying salt on the ice at one place). These are called "kluning points" (from West Frisian klúnje) and the skaters walk on their skates to the next stretch of good ice. In 1997 ice-transplantation was introduced to strengthen weak places in the ice, for instance under bridges.
Since the Elfstedentocht is such a rare occurrence, its declaration creates excitement all over the country. The day before the race many Dutch flock to Leeuwarden to enjoy the party atmosphere that surrounds the event. The evening before the race called the "Nacht van Leeuwarden" (Night of Leeuwarden) becomes a giant city-wide street party (Frisians, who have a reputation of surliness, are said to thaw when it freezes). At the day of the race most Frisians stay home to watch the race on television.
Although the speed-skating is most commonly known by people, other variants include: cycling (including human powered wheelchairs), kick-scootering, motorcycling, rowing, walking (in 5 days) and even gliding.
[well... it is freezing pretty heavily right now so there already people dreaming of an Elfstedentocht.... me thinks it is highly unlikely no matter how great it would be if it were to be]
Quote from: "D S"[Tues Dec 16]
However, it will no doubt result in Frost*ies throwing things at the TV when it predictably concludes that all prog died in 1977 as a result of punk... :roll:
Call me a cynic but was I right?!
There were so many things not covered but other bit players seemed to get a huge amount of coverage - I mean, who were Egg?!!
On one hand they showed a bit of Drama-era Yes and Owner of a Lonely Heart and passing reference to Genesis' latter commercial success was made so there appeared to be a recognition that prog didn't stop in 1977. However, I didn't spot the word 'Marillion' anywhere (surely the most recognisable and successful post-punk prog band), let alone numerous others we all know. ;)
And I agree - the only thing which saved the telly from flying objects was King Crimson's Frame By Frame - from the post-punk era!
I got a fairly standard apology from the BBC when I complained about their lack of balanced reporting on the current scene. It said that my comments would be seen by the department heads (or something like that)....so nothing will happen of course! ;)
Quote from: "Bert"I think we could mount an East Anglian (past/present) coup of this board !
I'm with ya!!!
Quote from: "sawtooth"I watched the Genesis Rome concert last night, and being a Genesis fanboy in my youth up to and including the Duke era, I was appalled to see how tame and limp it all seemed IMHO. I know some of you Frost*ies spent hard-earned wads seeing them in 2007, and I'm sure it seemed a lot more dramatic actually seeing it in person, but the playing and the performance seemed so pedestrian (even accounting for Phil Collins' advancing years!).
I actually enjoyed watching the third section more, where you saw the band rehearsing and the lighting and stage being designed. At least I got the feeling that they were in a pressure situation, with the poor lighting bod who had been employed as a 'button-pusher' 3 days before the first gig trying to hit his cues in the Domino vid seqence, and Mike Rutherford sounding more and more pompously country squire-like the more he got annoyed!
Sorry but it had to be said. ;)
I thought this exact same thing! I'm not a particular Genesis fan; barely a casual listener tbh, but I thought as a live performance they were so dull! The only energy on stage was Phil Collins bless him, and there were times when it really hit me that his voice is really bloody good. The only thing that made me carry on watching was the AMAZING stage rig. What a sight! That sort of thing is very inspiring, just a shame that no-one but Phil looked particularly bothered about anything more than picking up the cheques.
As a big (ex?)Genesis fan, sadly I have to agree. I didn't enjoy the gig at Twickeham anywhere near as much as I hoped and listening back to the recordings of the tour, it all sounds slow, low pitched and uninspired.
Sorry. People slag off the 1992 tour but the performances were all light years ahead of what we got in 07.
Quote from: "D S"[Tues Dec 16]
There were so many things not covered but other bit players seemed to get a huge amount of coverage - I mean, who were Egg?!!
:shock: Egg were a great band! 'The Civil Surface' is a fantastc album, I agree lthough they were never in the big league.
There were some glaring 70's era omisions, little or no mention of Van der Graaf Generator, Camel, Gentle Giant, Argent, Supertramp amongst others.
Not content with a spot on stage with Frost*
Cosmic Lawnmower got a mention :D
I trawled through both programmes, wasn't quite as bad as I expected.
Got the impression prog = flute, Glockenspiel, something odd etc
Quote from: "Sir James Saville"Mr Jethro Tull
so james, which one was Jethro?
Quote from: "The Cosmic Lawnmower"Quote from: "D S"[Tues Dec 16]
There were so many things not covered but other bit players seemed to get a huge amount of coverage - I mean, who were Egg?!!
:shock: Egg were a great band! 'The Civil Surface' is a fantastc album, I agree lthough they were never in the big league.
There were some glaring 70's era omisions, little or no mention of Van der Graaf Generator, Camel, Gentle Giant, Argent, Supertramp amongst others.
I have a friend who has a t-shirt she printed herself that reads "How do you like your Egg in the morning?" "In a gatefold sleeve." I don't think she'll ever lack prog suitors. (:-P
Little or no mention of Van der Graaf Generator sounds like a crime against prog to me. (:-/
Quote from: "Mikey"Quote from: "Sir James Saville"Mr Jethro Tull
so james, which one was Jethro?
I remember seeing Tull live a few years ago and some excitable woman in the audience shouted loudly between songs "hey Jethro play" (whatever it was, can't remember) Ian Anderson chuckled irritably... the embarrassment was palpable! :oops: :lol:
Quote from: "Philadelphia"Little or no mention of Van der Graaf Generator sounds like a crime against prog to me. (:-/
There was literally none. Unless I wasn't paying attention properly... which is quite possible. ;)
But there was footage of Caravan! And King Crimson... and there were pictures of Canterbury. :shock:
The only thing that really annoyed me though was that the caption for the last section said "1975-2008" and then they proceded to conclude that.. *yawn* prog was killed by punk in '76, they played the same boring old Sex Pistols clips and then that was the end of it. The only slight nod to anything after that was saying that Genesis and Yes managed to have some pop hits in the 80s.
Oh and all the members of Genesis managed to say exactly the same things they've said in every interview for 30 years. Phil Collins in 'I nearly joined Yes' shocker.... Tony Banks says girls started coming to see them after they had some hits... YAWN! Oh and who knew he got annoyed at Peter's Lamb costumes?
James
Have started watching some of the other programmes, the Genesis Live, and the one about the build up to the tour were half decent, Got bored with the Pink Floyd one, sure that's been on several times before. Mike Oldfield was OK considering when it was shot