Prog on the BBC - 2nd Jan BBC4

[ChrisX]

Actually, I correct an earlier post.  It did have something new in the form of the bloke from Egg who scared me somewhat especially with his comparison to a three year old dying from malnutrition  :shock:   Not sure that not getting commercial success is on a par with that.

He wasn't just talking about commercial succes but actually about any recognition, some notoriety, some form of positive feedback. Those were the real pre-internet days and there were no online guestbooks or forums anywhere.

[sawtooth]

I watched the Genesis Rome concert last night, and being a Genesis fanboy in my youth up to and including the Duke era, I was appalled to see how tame and limp it all seemed IMHO. I know some of you Frost*ies spent hard-earned wads seeing them in 2007, and I'm sure it seemed a lot more dramatic actually seeing it in person, but the playing and the performance seemed so pedestrian (even accounting for Phil Collins' advancing years!).

I actually enjoyed watching the third section more, where you saw the band rehearsing and the lighting and stage being designed. At least I got the feeling that they were in a pressure situation, with the poor lighting bod who had been employed as a 'button-pusher' 3 days before the first gig trying to hit his cues in the Domino vid seqence, and Mike Rutherford sounding more and more pompously country squire-like the more he got annoyed!

Sorry but it had to be said.

[The Cosmic Lawnmower]

I watched the Genesis Rome concert last night, and being a Genesis fanboy in my youth up to and including the Duke era, I was appalled to see how tame and limp it all seemed IMHO. I know some of you Frost*ies spent hard-earned wads seeing them in 2007, and I'm sure it seemed a lot more dramatic actually seeing it in person, but the playing and the performance seemed so pedestrian (even accounting for Phil Collins' advancing years!).

I actually enjoyed watching the third section more, where you saw the band rehearsing and the lighting and stage being designed. At least I got the feeling that they were in a pressure situation, with the poor lighting bod who had been employed as a 'button-pusher' 3 days before the first gig trying to hit his cues in the Domino vid seqence, and Mike Rutherford sounding more and more pompously country squire-like the more he got annoyed!

Sorry but it had to be said.

Have to say we were watching as well and did comment that some of it seemed a bit lame, I gotta say having seen them at Twickers last Summer it definately wasn't like that in the flesh. One of the troubles tends to be Banker's choice of keyboard sounds in recent times... the words Argos & Casio spring to mind.

So how horrible was that TimeShift prog programme on Saturday, what a rotten bunch of 'talking heads' they dug up for that, they all seemed to hate prog! What did they bother talking to Peely for, it's well documented that he didn't like prog.

I did enjoy the ELP thing on Saturday though, I remember watching that the first time round when I were but a nipper.

[Dodie]

I haven't had chance to see all of the BBC's Progumentary (ahem) yet, but the bit I saw didn't seem anywhere near as patronishing, stupid and ill-informed as I'd expected. But I only got as far as 1970, so perhaps things took a turn for the worse after that.

Pertinent comment on the blog of Rock journalist Dave Ling about the programmes:
http://www.daveling.co.uk/diary.htm

As for Genesis 2007, I didn't see them in the flesh, and I quite liked the live album / DVD in parts. So what do I know...

Cheers

David

[The Cosmic Lawnmower]

Ooooh, I meant to say, it was nice to get a 'shout out' from Gabe in the Genesis IKWIL clips      :lol:

[tomskerous]

it was their (the producers / writers of this program) opinion which I can respect.

Ah, well I spent many years working with the Exec Producer. So I can't.

The problem is of course that it was presented as fact not as opinion.

Yup, sounds about right. ;-)

[ChrisX]

The problem is of course that it was presented as fact not as opinion.

Yup, sounds about right. ;-)

Ah.. but did you know that The Elfstedentocht (English translation: "Journey of Eleven Cities") is a speed skating competition and leisure skating tour held irregularly in the province of Friesland, Netherlands.

The tour, almost 200 km in length, is conducted on frozen canals, rivers and lakes between the eleven Frisian cities: Leeuwarden, Sneek, IJlst, Sloten, Stavoren, Hindeloopen, Workum, Bolsward, Harlingen, Franeker, Dokkum and finally again Leeuwarden. The tour is not held every year, mostly because not every Dutch winter permits skating on natural ice. Adding to that, the tour currently features about 15,000 amateur skaters taking part, putting high requirements on the quality of the ice. There is a stated regulatory requirement for the race to take place that the ice must be (and remain at) a minimum thickness of 15 centimetres along the entirety of the course.

There are likely to be points along the route where the ice is too thin to allow mass skating, or where there is some other problem (e.g., there is actually an organisation "Committee Elfsteden Nee" that is opposed to the race and sabotaged the route in 1997 by laying salt on the ice at one place). These are called "kluning points" (from West Frisian klúnje) and the skaters walk on their skates to the next stretch of good ice. In 1997 ice-transplantation was introduced to strengthen weak places in the ice, for instance under bridges.

Since the Elfstedentocht is such a rare occurrence, its declaration creates excitement all over the country. The day before the race many Dutch flock to Leeuwarden to enjoy the party atmosphere that surrounds the event. The evening before the race called the "Nacht van Leeuwarden" (Night of Leeuwarden) becomes a giant city-wide street party (Frisians, who have a reputation of surliness, are said to thaw when it freezes). At the day of the race most Frisians stay home to watch the race on television.

Although the speed-skating is most commonly known by people, other variants include: cycling (including human powered wheelchairs), kick-scootering, motorcycling, rowing, walking (in 5 days) and even gliding.

[well... it is freezing pretty heavily right now so there already people dreaming of an Elfstedentocht.... me thinks it is highly unlikely no matter how great it would be if it were to be]

[D S]

[Tues Dec 16]
However, it will no doubt result in Frost*ies throwing things at the TV when it predictably concludes that all prog died in 1977 as a result of punk...  :roll:

Call me a cynic but was I right?!
There were so many things not covered but other bit players seemed to get a huge amount of coverage - I mean, who were Egg?!!
On one hand they showed a bit of Drama-era Yes and Owner of a Lonely Heart and passing reference to Genesis' latter commercial success was made so there appeared to be a recognition that prog didn't stop in 1977.  However, I didn't spot the word 'Marillion' anywhere (surely the most recognisable and successful post-punk prog band), let alone numerous others we all know.  
And I agree - the only thing which saved the telly from flying objects was King Crimson's Frame By Frame - from the post-punk era!

[Pedro]

I got a fairly standard apology from the BBC when I complained about their lack of balanced reporting on the current scene. It said that my comments would be seen by the department heads (or something like that)....so nothing will happen of course!  

[Cptncanary]

I think we could mount an East Anglian (past/present) coup of this board !

I'm with ya!!!

[DannySoisSage]

I watched the Genesis Rome concert last night, and being a Genesis fanboy in my youth up to and including the Duke era, I was appalled to see how tame and limp it all seemed IMHO. I know some of you Frost*ies spent hard-earned wads seeing them in 2007, and I'm sure it seemed a lot more dramatic actually seeing it in person, but the playing and the performance seemed so pedestrian (even accounting for Phil Collins' advancing years!).

I actually enjoyed watching the third section more, where you saw the band rehearsing and the lighting and stage being designed. At least I got the feeling that they were in a pressure situation, with the poor lighting bod who had been employed as a 'button-pusher' 3 days before the first gig trying to hit his cues in the Domino vid seqence, and Mike Rutherford sounding more and more pompously country squire-like the more he got annoyed!

Sorry but it had to be said.

I thought this exact same thing! I'm not a particular Genesis fan; barely a casual listener tbh, but I thought as a live performance they were so dull! The only energy on stage was Phil Collins bless him, and there were times when it really hit me that his voice is really bloody good. The only thing that made me carry on watching was the AMAZING stage rig. What a sight! That sort of thing is very inspiring, just a shame that no-one but Phil looked particularly bothered about anything more than picking up the cheques.

[LivingForever]

As a big (ex?)Genesis fan, sadly I have to agree. I didn't enjoy the gig at Twickeham anywhere near as much as I hoped and listening back to the recordings of the tour, it all sounds slow, low pitched and uninspired.

Sorry. People slag off the 1992 tour but the performances were all light years ahead of what we got in 07.

[The Cosmic Lawnmower]

[Tues Dec 16]
There were so many things not covered but other bit players seemed to get a huge amount of coverage - I mean, who were Egg?!!

 :shock: Egg were a great band! 'The Civil Surface' is a fantastc album,  I agree lthough they were never in the big league.
There were some glaring 70's era omisions, little or no mention of Van der Graaf Generator, Camel, Gentle Giant, Argent, Supertramp amongst others.

[Mikey]

Not content with a spot on stage with Frost*
Cosmic Lawnmower got a mention

I trawled through both programmes, wasn't quite as bad as I expected.
Got the impression prog = flute, Glockenspiel, something odd etc

Mr Jethro Tull

so james, which one was Jethro?

[Philadelphia]

[Tues Dec 16]
There were so many things not covered but other bit players seemed to get a huge amount of coverage - I mean, who were Egg?!!

 :shock: Egg were a great band! 'The Civil Surface' is a fantastc album,  I agree lthough they were never in the big league.
There were some glaring 70's era omisions, little or no mention of Van der Graaf Generator, Camel, Gentle Giant, Argent, Supertramp amongst others.

I have a friend who has a t-shirt she printed herself that reads "How do you like your Egg in the morning?" "In a gatefold sleeve." I don't think she'll ever lack prog suitors. (:-P


Little or no mention of Van der Graaf Generator sounds like a crime against prog to me. (:-/