thought id seek a little advice from someone who is experienced in the world of prog songwriting. :)
i made an intro for a song and it sounded like the beginning of something HUGE so i made a bet that i could make it longer than 23 minutes and 10 seconds. i got to about ten minutes and iv hit a wall, i think i could end it there but i really want to make it REALLY long. lol
do you think its foolish to deliberately TRY and make a long song?
I don't think it's foolish to try but it might be misguided to *force* it?
Without any further information all I can say is take the Wonderland approach.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iZprKMB1 ... annel_page (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iZprKMB1hHU&feature=channel_page)
Leave it for a while, come back to it, listen to it with fresh ears, consider any part of it that could be causing you to stop, a chord which is difficult to lead anywhere with the tone of the piece, a rhythm that doesn't quite fit, anything.
The best songs in any genre tell a story.
How long is the story you're telling?
I think it's ok to set out to make an epic as long as the result doesn't include long passages of wasted time and unnecessary repetition. Make it count. Don't go for length if the material doesn't call for it. I've heard 8 minute songs that were truly over in 4.
As John M and Jem noted during their radio interview (in a Frost report somewhere) - it's all about "songs".
I've just started writing more proggy stuff (with my dear other half) and we have a rough plan for a long song...no idea how long it will be, but it will only be as long as it needs to, to get the story across. I reckon it will probably hit 15 mins.
so far theres no repeats in it an i have managed to knock down another 3 minutes XD goin quite well right now :) hopefully it doesnt sound too forced, il take your advice and come back to it to see if it still sounds good
thanks!
Can I just say how much I love your name. :D Marvellous stuff sir.
We haven't had some a good name since HiHatma Gandhi.
aw wow
epic thanks iv only been on here for a day :)
i feel all proud of myself now lol
i deleted 4 minutes of song the other day but i like to think of it as pruning rather than scrapping
maybe il be there by christmas...
new section! power to the disciples of 11/8!
Well how advanced is your recording and editing software? To add more of full bodied sound I love sampling sounds from everyday things and putting them in where I see fit. When you get stuck another good thing to is go and listen to some music that inspires ideas. This way when you feel ready you can come back to it and with fresh ears and ideas. But the bottom line with song writing in my head is it shouldn't be a chore, you should have fun writing songs.
well i dont have any, really. just guitar pro so anything i do is just glorified MIDI at the moment, im only 19 so i cant afford any kind of fancy stuff right now im just planning to leech of the recources of huddersfield uni in september.
Quote from: "drblowthingsup"im just planning to leech of the recources of huddersfield uni in september.
Hey, another Frostie in Huddersfield!
I didn't study here, but live in the area now. But the trouble with leeching gear as a student is that when you're a graduate the gear suddently dries up! And for some reason the wife and kids prefer having a roof over their head and food to eat, which means that Dad doesn't get to play with prog songwriting anymore. I never did finish my trilogy of spiritual conceptual prog-rock pop songs. Ah, well, those were the days...
Good luck with the course.
Cheers,
David
Quote from: "Dodie"I never did finish my trilogy of spiritual conceptual prog-rock pop songs
The loss to the world is incalculable.
Quote from: "drblowthingsup"...planning to leech of the recources of huddersfield uni in september.
Eh up, lad.
Are thee coming to t' Leeds gig?
Me sen (from Bratford) an' me mate from Keighley 'll be there.
Quote from: "drblowthingsup"well i dont have any, really. just guitar pro so anything i do is just glorified MIDI at the moment, im only 19 so i cant afford any kind of fancy stuff right now im just planning to leech of the recources of huddersfield uni in september.
I'm 20 and I have Reason 4.0, Logic Studio, several MIDI keyboards, two guitars and a Fantom X8. I'll not mention the Kaoss pad or the Tenori-On though. Or the Macbook Pro.
Ah employment has served me well.
In summary: Job = Stuff. :)
Quote from: "SerFox"In summary: Job = Stuff. :)
Very true. ;)
Quote from: "SerFox"In summary: Job = Stuff. :)
And Better Job = Better Stuff. :D
Quote from: "drblowthingsup"im only 19 so i cant afford any kind of fancy stuff right now im just planning to leech of the recources of huddersfield uni in september.
I'm 18 and that's the exact same plan I have, but with Hull College. 8-) It would work better in the gear department if I didn't have to pay for food, drink and rent. Curse the human body and it's "needs"! ;)
Quote from: "RacingHippo"Quote from: "drblowthingsup"...planning to leech of the recources of huddersfield uni in september.
Eh up, lad.
Are thee coming to t' Leeds gig?
Me sen (from Bratford) an' me mate from Keighley 'll be there.
yes i am infact thats how i got into frost* in the first place, was going to see dream theater with a friend and uncovered a whole new world of proggy goodness. magical.
an also, im planning to have a job by the time i leave, and therefore, have stuff. wel see how it goes lol
Plus one on the marvelous name, Doctor BTU! :) What course are you doing in September? Mine's a Foundation Degree in Music Production number with all the trimmings. Mmm... 8-)
QuoteAnd Better Job = Better Stuff.
Or just '
even more stuff'.
I'm also from Huddersfield but currently live in Leeds as I go to the College of Music there. Will be moving back to Huddersfield come July when my course finishes. Also going to the Leeds gig :)
im doin music tech an popular music in september.
i applied for LCM but got in for a different course than what i wanted to do so i settled on goin to the hudd' l :)
Hudds is supposed to have a good music department, I just never considered it because I wanted to move away from home and would feel obliged to stay if I was going to Hudds.
What course did you apply for at LCM and what did you get offered?
When I originally applied I applied (foolishly) for Music Studies (basically the classical course) it was the wrong course for me (I didn't really research them properly) and was denied a place because they didn't have an electric guitar tutor who worked on that course - they just turned down my application rather than offering me another course, I had to phone up and ask them wtf was going on (since I well met all the entry requirements) - so basically I understand if they mucked up your application, they must be a bit crappy in that department.
Anyway.
just popular music
i would have gone for a jazz guitar course cuz i want to do studio musician stuff but at the time i was applyin i was feelin really unconfident about my playin so now im writing more than im playing. still shreddin out tho. full on. lol
also, the guitar in your avatar looks quite a lot like mine, what is it?
i have a hairband on mine too lol
It's a rather naughty-looking Suhr, which we got a glimpse of a while back.
I'm still hoping to cross-breed my Grosh with it when I get back to the UK, and produce some small quilt-top doublenecks....
Quote from: "drblowthingsup"just popular music
i would have gone for a jazz guitar course cuz i want to do studio musician stuff but at the time i was applyin i was feelin really unconfident about my playin so now im writing more than im playing. still shreddin out tho. full on. lol
also, the guitar in your avatar looks quite a lot like mine, what is it?
i have a hairband on mine too lol
It's a Suhr Carved Top:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v67/A ... 500002.jpg (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v67/Andelusion/Suhr/7500002.jpg)
ah never mind. i have a maverick x-1.
does anyone know how you're supposed to group the notes in 13/8?
Quote from: "drblowthingsup"does anyone know how you're supposed to group the notes in 13/8?
depends on the feel, doesn't it? 3334, 23233, 222223, etc...
You can group them however you want, who cares as long as it sounds good :)
I agree with what Roger & Steve have said and go one further:
Surely the thing to do is come up with an idea/rhythm/riff that feels right, and if that just happens to be in 13/8, so be it :)
no i already have the riff i just mean grouping it as in writing it down il just write it as it sounds, thanks!
That's not THE Funk Snail is it?
Quote from: "drblowthingsup"no i already have the riff i just mean grouping it as in writing it down il just write it as it sounds, thanks!
Oh, I see - how to group the quaverey things. Sorry for misunderstanding.
Like you say - write it as it sounds :)
Quote from: "Nellie"That's not THE Funk Snail is it?
:?: :?: :?:
Quote from: "RacingHippo"Quote from: "Nellie"That's not THE Funk Snail is it?
:?: :?: :?:
Drblowthingsup's sig..
Quote from: "Nellie"Quote from: "RacingHippo"Quote from: "Nellie"That's not THE Funk Snail is it?
:?: :?: :?:
Drblowthingsup's sig..
Yeah, yeah, I can see that, but you appeared to know who or what the aforementioned groovy gastropod actually
is...
im confused... have i mistakenly stolen a mascot off someone?
he's the product of a MS paint freakout. lol
No, I'm sorry, I was just mucking about and bigging him up. :D
Quote from: "Nellie"No, I'm sorry, I was just mucking about and bigging him up. :D
Whoa... so now he's a GIANT Gastropod of Groove!
Dr B - You'll get used to folks around here after a while (by which time it will be TOO LATE, MWAHAHAhahahahahahahaa *splutter*)
BTW your MS Paint skillz are truly l33t.
thanks! :)
How do you upload pictures into posts?
i have put chapters into the huge song! now its truly prog. lol
Quote from: "drblowthingsup"How do you upload pictures into posts?
If you paste the url of the image you want into a post, highlight the url and click the "Img" button, it will wrap the url in "img" tags and make it show as a picture.
So, your url might be...
http://i122.photobucket.com/albums/o265 ... arView.jpg (http://i122.photobucket.com/albums/o265/waitepb/TourCD_RearView.jpg)
...when you highlight it and click "Img" it will end up looking like the text inside the following box...
[img]http://i122.photobucket.com/albums/o265/waitepb/TourCD_RearView.jpg[/img]...and when you view the post it will just show the image....
(//http://i122.photobucket.com/albums/o265/waitepb/TourCD_RearView.jpg)
Try to keep the image size down if you can because some people access the forum via handheld devices with slower transfer rates.
Pedro - more useful than any of these goons...
(//http://www.anvari.org/db/fun/Computer/Useless_Man.jpg)
8-)
Holy poo, that image is a bit big. I think I'm featured in the next one on there... :(
(//http://i320.photobucket.com/albums/nn346/commonroomgroup/funkcomp.jpg)
if i got that right, that should be some of my funk snail doodles lol
hes magical. he's my best shelled friend.
aw no thats heawge! sorry handheld people :( i am ashamed.
Now he's "THE" Funk Snail :!: 8-)
*holds hand to ear*
whats that, Funk Snail?
...
Funk Snail says thankyou for the recognition.
:D
for a long time I thought your avatar was a very colorful turkey.
I see the snail now. 8-)
back to the original idea of the thread, how do most of you go about writing lyrics to songs because i feel thats what i need t focus on now, as the actual music is nearly done.
any advice?
Quote from: "drblowthingsup"back to the original idea of the thread, how do most of you go about writing lyrics to songs because i feel thats what i need t focus on now, as the actual music is nearly done.
any advice?
Back to the orginal idea out of the thread? In this place? Are you mad?
I want to know how Funk Snail escaped from the battery turkey farm and found his true molluscular ways. Or was he falsely imprisoned, a case of mistaken identity?
Snail use speculating, they'll be a trail of clues.
What do you like to write about lyrically? Any common themes?
For me, the mood of the music helps suggest the tone of the lyrics. Something slow and predominantly in minor keys will likely produce a somber tale of loss or unrequited love. Something complex will get more intelligent, profound lyrics. Something upbeat and loaded with aug7s will produce something more whimsical or clever. Always fun to do the exact opposite, though. Write something light and poppy then lace it with violent or heartbreaking lyrics and see what happens (Orson's "Already Over" comes to mind).
That's my approach, anyway. But, what I really want to know is, what would Funk Snail write about?
Quote from: "gr8gonzo"But, what I really want to know is, what would Funk Snail write about?
fear of salt?
Never Mind The Mollusks, Here's The Funk Snail?
that... is genius.
also funk snail fears nothing. not even salt. infact salt is afraid of him.
I'll pass on the salt, thanks :shock:
Quote from: "drblowthingsup"also funk snail fears nothing. not even salt. infact salt is afraid of him.
Is Funk Snail the Chuck Norris of the mollusk world?
Funk Snail doesn't sleep - he waits...
Funk Snail has two speeds - crawl and kill.
Who can forget his martial arts remake of that classic Richard E. Grant tragi-comedy, "FunkSnail and Die"....
Quote from: "landslug"I'll pass on the salt, thanks :shock:
Yes, let's not forget the Unstoppable Slippery Duo....
is it odd to have a favourite time signature?
...
whats everybodys favourite time signature. lol
I was always rather taken with the 15/8 (7/8 + 8/8) of the Tubular Bells intro.
More recently by the 20/8 (9/8 + 11/8) towards the end of the mighty Touchstone's "The Witness part 2". :)
I've just about got the hang of dancing in 7/4 and 5/4 (not at the same time!) after years of practice.
(Pedro, what ARE you doing up at that time in the morning? Late night? Early riser? Or have you moved to a different time zone?)
Quote from: "catherine"(Pedro, what ARE you doing up at that time in the morning? Late night? Early riser? Or have you moved to a different time zone?)
I think it might be the point in time for my soon to be made redundant brain where the brave face meets the inner scream....going over that bump seems to wake me up....a full bladder spurs the bod into making the trek through the temperature differential twixt bed and bathroom and, on the return to said mossy couch, the iPod touch says "here be forums...check them".... ;)
Ah dear, the "men and bladders" problem is one that has ruined many a night's sleep for me. Once I'm woken in the middle of the night I find it really hard to go back to sleep again. The best thing, I find, is to reduce my husband's fluid intake in the evenings, so I sit there saying "No, you really DON'T need anything else to drink..."
I'm a simple sort of rodent, so my favourite time sig is 4/4. Nearly every Pink Floyd song seems to be in 4/4 and that's good enough for me. 8-)
7/8 is pretty cool, too. :)
I have a huge list of songs in odd time that I listen too..an like songs that have different parts in different times..like Stranger in You Soul - Transatlantic...and I particularly enjoy them when they creep into mainstream listening and the song becomes very accessable, like Sting's Seven Days in 5/4 and Gabriel's Solsbury Hill, or Genesis' twist to parts of "Turn it on again" in 13/8
For playing, classics, like "Apocalypse in 9/8" by Genesis, towards the end of Supper's Ready...took me a while to master.....and one I really have to concentrate on is Yes' Long Distance Runaround....must be a 'brain wiring' thang...
I've also been getting to grips with poly-rhythms ...so playing something like 7/8 over 5/4 ... or 11/8 over 3/4 ...get some interesting things happening...hahaha
I also enjoy jamming in 19/16, after watching Mike Portnoy's Liquid Drum Theater DVD
(altogether now 1 e & a 2 e & a 3 e & a 4 e & a 1 2 3 ) :lol:
I think it was Devo that got me into the odd time signatures as an impressionable teenager. For example, Blockhead where the verses are in 11/4, Jocko Homo with lots of 7/4. And I haven't looked back!
I wonder what a bookmakers favourite time sig is?? any bets??
Quote from: "Brom"I wonder what a bookmakers favourite time sig is?? any bets??
It probably all sounds flat to them. I doubt anything we've heard'll get them going.
My first encounter with odd time sigs was when I was about 14... *ponders* ... yep, 1980, when Duke was released.
I absolutely loved Turn it On Again. (And I'm completely with FantomG about odd sigs sneaked into the mainstream - Seven Days is one of my favourite songs for just that reason!)
Naturally, I learned the drum part to that (despite not having a kit at the time), whilst everyone else at school thought it was crap because you couldn't dance to it :roll:
It was only about a year later that I first played something in 7/8 - on the euphonium in the Sally Army band I was in at the time. I loved it :) Unfortunately most of the old codgers couldn't get their heads around it, so it was never performed, but it gave me a taste.
Prog followed :mrgreen:
I still have an awesome 15/8 chorus in the Nick-archives which I'm determined to use somewhere.
Like all the best odd-time stuff, I didn't realise it was odd until I counted it back.
here's a tune I wrote (//http://www.rogergrow.com/music/naad/05_3516.mp3) it's called "3516". can you figure out why?
8-)
some other stuff here, including some other odd meter songs... (//http://www.rogergrow.com/comp.php) nothing very recent, however.
ahaaawww!
its amazin like prog jazz!
do you mind if i download it? i wont owe you money or something will i? lol
what do you teach? i forget people on here all have jobs an stuff it all seems so far away for me lol
download away! glad you like it!
I teach middle school music; kids age 10-14. I do all the choruses, and the general music/theory composition.
and I always play them some Frost*!
that's very, very cool, rog. you continue to surprise and impress me. and you're a nice guy, as well. well done.
Quote from: "gr8gonzo"that's very, very cool, rog. you continue to surprise and impress me. and you're a nice guy, as well. well done.
why, thankee, kind sir!! /bow
here's some slightly newer things (//http://virb.com/etaoing)
(guess I should post these down below, but what the hay...) 8-)
surely everyone of my generation's first encounter with complex time signatures was having Tubular Bells played in music and movement classes at primary school?
(Francis Monkman's sequencer lines on Sky 1 was I think the first time I noticed something was up.)
Huh, some of us didn't go to such trendy modern primary schools as you obviously did! The musical highlight of our week was the Friday lunchtime school disco in the school hall with the curtains drawn, where we danced to Gary Glitter and Suzi Quattro and Slade and The Sweet and I was much taller than all the boys so no-one wanted to dance with me.
If it's any consolation, I was much taller than all the boys and nobody wanted to dance with me either.
haha i remember gettin me boogie on to th spice girls at our leavin disco.
i got one of my friends to ask this girl to dance with me lol i was such a lil nerd. lol