Today i signed a contract to move into a house next year with 6 mates and im planning on turning my room into a rudimentary studio. and i know NOTHING!
im thinking about getting an M-audio Delta midi controller thing and a macbook with logic 9 and some monitors. other than that, im stuck. will i need anything else?
cheerses, cheeses.
A copy of SoundOnSound magazine, a well written email to their Studio SOS feature. a large supply of Hobnobs and some good luck! ;)
A touch of patience, talent and RTFM might also help. :mrgreen:
it does not bode well for me that i dont know what RTFM means :(
Quote from: "drblowthingsup"it does not bode well for me that i dont know what RTFM means :(
Ah! It's one of the male traits that sometimes lets us down, we think we can take our new toys straight from the box and be an expert in seconds. A sensible person (probably female) will Read The F@#cking Manual.
Quote from: "johninblack"Quote from: "drblowthingsup"it does not bode well for me that i dont know what RTFM means :(
Ah! It's one of the male traits that sometimes lets us down, we think we can take our new toys straight from the box and be an expert in seconds. A sensible person (probably female) will Read The F@#cking Manual.
Pffff! Manuals are them things you open after spending hours and hours trying to figure something out and after reading and posting about the troubles you have on numerous forums. To find out ................. the solution is in there spending 2 minutes with it. :?
Studio set-up? Hm..
Computer: You'd actually be better investing in an iMac. Roughly same price as a Macbook, if not cheaper, and they aren't that bad in terms of performance. Slightly under that of a Macbook Pro. I got a Macbook for portability however, as I like to be able to take it somewhere and compose in a new environment. If you go for either though, also invest in a Logic keyboard shortcut cover, it extends your keyboards life, and it's useful!
Controllers: M-Audio is always a good bet as long as you're careful. Avoid their low-end stuff, and avoid Behringer. They're good, but not spectacular. My Behringer 65key is a good gigging keyboard though, takes a beating, and it's cheap.
I'd also recommend looking at the KORNnano series, especially the Nanocontrol. Cheaper than a Mackie transport, and since Logic has rather awkward keyboard shortcuts for the most basic things, it's useful to have.
Mixing Desk: You *really* don't need one, though if you get a Nanocontrol you're sorted, that's got some faders on it. I've been producing for a couple of years now, and I still haven't needed one. The mixer in Logic is at a prime location that it's easy to check, and the way it's laid out is very sensible and allows me to see what I'm doing. There are also the analyzing plugins you can stick on each channel and the master which give you more information, which helps in the mixing process.
Microphones and Interfaces: If you're going to be working with audio, and DAW's, you're better off with an interface rather than a whole mixing desk. Desks are more useful for recording audio straight to an outboard interface, a Mackie for instance, THEN bringing that to the DAW for mixing, which is verrrrry Abbey Roads. And expensive. You're best looking for a USB/Firewire (If you're going with a Macbook Pro, you get a firewire 800, which is rather nice) interface with a couple of stereo inputs and monitor outputs. There are a few on the market that do pretty much the same thing. Avoid the M-Audio Digidesign's though, they're horrid. Do some googling before you buy, some of them have high noise inputs or simply don't work with some DAW's and it's best to know before you shell out your hard earned moolah on a piece of duff kit (Trust me, this is experience :( ).
Your microphone is entirely dependent on what you want to record. A pair of Shure dynamic mic's are a good bet for vocals and acoustic instruments, SM57's are best for instruments, and a single SM58 is a classic bread and butter vocal mic that is renowned for being used both in the studio and live. If you're going for a fuller, more articulate sound, you might consider a condenser mic. Ask at a music shop for advice on these, because their applications vary from ambient mic's to drum recordings. Speaking of which, if you want to record acoustic drums, prepare to shell out on quite a few mic's. You'll want a bass drum mic, a pencil mic for the snare, a set of tom clip on mic's if you want that full 'thonk' sound, and a pair of overhead condensers for the cymbals. If you're going to be doing a big production, it's generally cheaper to hire a set of mic's, or go to a studio and bring your drum kit and record it there.
Speakers and headphones: Crucial if you want to be producing top quality choons. This is entirely up to you and depends on the style of music you're going to be writing and producing in the studio. I have a pair of Rokit 5's, and they serve me well, though I did use them for live performance and one of the tweets is a bit noisy, need to have it looked at. But overall they're pretty robust and have a good output with a full sound, and the range is definitely above acceptable. Head to a music/audio store and ask for a demo if any that you see that take your fancy, or if you don't have a clue, just ask and tell them what your intents and purposes are for the monitors and they should be able to help. Just be wary they might try and sell you something more expensive than you need so it's good to ask Google about it before you go, just to familiarize yourself with the terminology, such as Dynamic Range and other gobbldygook they're more likely going to tell you about.
Headphones are also good to have, it gives you another perspective when mixing, and is also paramount when recording with a microphone. I'd recommend flat out get some studio grade Sennheisers. I've tried Senn's, Sony's, Technics and all other sorts and I keep coming back to Sennherisers. The quality is fantastic, they are very robust, built to last, every part on them is replaceable so if a capsule should die, you can get a replacement part for a fraction of the cost of a new pair, and the sound you get isn't just good, you can trust it. I have had a pair of HD212's for a good few years now (Had this pair since 2007) and what I heard back then is exactly what I am hearing now. I have not been able to notice any flux or change in dynamic or quality. I had some bloke bragging to me about his new £300 technics headphones, I had a listen, nothing special, too much bass response. He listened on my then £70 Sennheiser HD212's and looked thoroughly embarrassed.
Apart from this, get yourself a few sample CD's, some software instruments, the general fare of odds and sods that pique your interest. And teabags. Lots of teabags.
Wot the 'fox said. Sensible lad.
Top job, Serfox - thanks for taking the time. :)
It killed ten minutes of my otherwise eventless and unplanned Saturday evening :) And if it helps at least one person, hurrah!
Edit: Geetar, I REFUSE to be your 'party ring' :lol:
I'm frightened to think what that might imply :lol:
SerFox, could you elaborate on the bit where you say there's plugins you can put on the tracks and master to help with mixing? I use Logic (had express for a few years, upgraded to Logic Studio earlier this year), and I'd love to find things that make mixing easier! :)
For example, sticking a multimeter on your Out 1-2 channel is a good idea. If you're in the initial stages of mixing, you want to know what is where, so knowing what is louder and where your main problems are that could be causing the track to peak or if something is being overpowered and the dB isn't giving you enough of a clue, using this is very useful, ie if the bass frequencies light up higher than the treble throughout, chances are that your issue lies somewhere with the bass drum or bass instruments, or even low harmonics given off by midrange instruments (The organ emulator, Epiano emulator and Sculptue are renowned for this)
Also have a look in the EQ section. There is more than one EQ type, you even have the option of only modifying one single band, which is very useful for very precise EQing. Also if you want to give your mix a very unique sound, consider using some of the amp simulators, turn off the cabinet and use the speaker by itself, turning off the crunch and gain, and position a virtual microphone at the speaker as you want it, and use the EQ controls in there. That's just one example of being creative. I get a lot of my crunchy, acid drum sounds that way, and I use the bass sim to get some really wide, fat sounding basses and also my low end of pad's are Bussed through that too usually. Two signals, one going through a bus to a Low pass which I feed the bass amp, and I cut the bass on the rest, which keeps the mid-high centered, but the low end is widened and sounds very rich and raw, which, while using the stereo imager is good, sounds a lot more defined.
I'd also like to add on the subject of Interfaces, if you're a guitarist, Line 6's gear is fantastic, their Toneport and such are great, and the software links directly into Logic as an audio unit you can load up inside logic. No rewiring or outbound recording nessecary, it's right there in Logic.
+ 1 on getting an iMac. Once you get one, stuff as much RAM into it as you can afford.
You might as well now and you'll be thankful you did down the road. I too use a Macbook
but wouldn't mind having a new desktop now.
+1 on the Korg Nano's . I have Nano Pad and Kontrol and love them. The Nano pad is fun
and I love to do my own drum solo's on them when I want to humor myself. The Kontrol
is nice but I already have my Project Mix I/O which works extremely well with Logic on my
setup for what I need. I plan on getting the Nano Key eventually.
You definitely want to go with something high speed for an interface. check around and
find out what devices work best with your planned configuration. Serfox is right about
the Maudio/ Digi stuff,though I have to say my Project Mix I/O runs solid and after having
it sent out and had the converters and analog I/O hot-rodded, it sounds better than most
of the FW interfaces on the market right now,aside from the Apogee stuff.
The line 6 stuff is good too. My cousin has a guitar port and is happy for the most part.
My POD XT live has been great as well, though I'm going back to using a real amp
when tracking parts and using it for effects now.
As for Keyboard controllers, I suggest going to a local shop and trying out everything
and see what works and feels good to use. I've been using an Axiom 61 and a 25 since
last spring have had no issues and generally like their action. I'm not a true keyboardist
by any means,so it probably more than enough for me. Other may agree/disagree.
Logic Pro has been great for me since 9.02. Every time I sit down and boot it up I feel
like I have the whole world at my fingertips and get down what I have in my head.
Donlt know if it's been mentioned already or not, but get a good external FW drive
to record your projects to.
here's a great condenser mic: MXL (//http://www.pssl.com/MXL-SP1-Condenser-Studio-Microphone-With-Clip), and you can't beat the price!! I have one of these, and it's very nice. clear, yet warm.
Quote from: "EVP"+ 1 on getting an iMac. Once you get one, stuff as much RAM into it as you can afford.
Donlt know if it's been mentioned already or not, but get a good external FW drive
to record your projects to.
Implicit in any iMac advice would be warning about the periodic perils of hanging a chunky drive and a Firewire interface off the same bus. Remember, if USB doesn't give you enough bandwidth- multiple simultaneous inputs and outputs being a prime case of this- then there's only that one Firewire bus in and out of an iMac. This can and often does lead to contention issues.
My last three generation iMac-using mates in the States all ended up sticking the biggest,
quietist HD they could in the iMac, and partitioning it for audio use. They would, I gather, back up to an external drive every few hours or so for really "vital" material they felt they couldn't afford to lose.
Don't underestimate the noise issue, either. iMacs, for all their utility, can be noisy enough to severely p*ss you off during tracking in the same room. I have no experience of the new ones yet, but anecdotally they're not
that quiet. I'm waiting to get my hands on one for more testing.
And Serfox: "party ring" sounds well dodgy. I suspect it's a teenage thing involving small icing-covered comestibles and a cellphone camera.
From a home / amateur studio angle...
I use a new iMac and it's quiet enough not to matter a kipper, over the sound of breathing during a vocal take it's not audible. Get an iMac from the apple refurb store and you'll save 20% which you can then spend on loads of ram from crucial memory, who are cheapest for compatible chips.
I have an maudio fw410 interface, my advice would be not to buy maudio as they are slow at bringing out new drivers to keep up with apple, I regularly have to reinstal the drivers due to the mac not seeing it. There are plenty of other good options for £250 from DV247
As for mics, there are many options, £130 will get you a Rode nt1a, which will do vocals and accoustic guitars. Again DV247 have some good offers on at the moment for an SE mic plus vocal reflector screen.
Software, unless you're experienced get Logic Express which will give you more than enough to play with and learn on and only costs a fraction of Logic studio, honestly it will be challenging enough to start with.
Good headphones are a must, then I bought a low wattage Cambridge audio amp and cheaper mission speakew to use as monitors .... Good enough to get me going.
My tuppence worth: My new iMac is silent compared to the G5. Stunning performance.
Have a look at Roland's Edirol line of interfaces and controllers. Good value.
Line 6 Pod all the way.
Reason Record. Value and less processor hungry.
Headphones: Beyerdynamics DT250.
Like I said, my tuppence worth. Ignore / delete.
Record is good and a reasonable investment... it's not as powerful as a full fledged DAW, which Record certainly isn't. I plan to use Record for live demo and and sessions in the future however, as it seems a lot more flexible than Logic, and a lot simpler than an outboard mixer and data interface. And to get the full power of it you'd need Reason as well, as Record on it's own is a bit...bland.
Serfox, that was some brilliant posting. Thank you, sir! :D
This question is directed towards the good Doctor BTU - are you planning on soundproofing the room? Doing acoustic treatment? I've just done an essay on studio construction and, while I'm not confident yet with my own explanations, I could point out some sources that could help. For acoustic problems/solutions, the Master Handbook Of Acoustics by F. Alton Everest is essential and the HyperPhysics (//http://hyperphysics.phy-astr.gsu.edu/HBASE/hframe.html) website has been a good friend to me over the past few months. It's such a deep and thorough website, really good stuff.
If you're not bothered about room acoustics and wotnot, then please ignore this rambling goon. :)
Some good stuff in this thread...
I would add one thing..
Acoustic Treatment.
Recording anything in the average bedroom generally sounds like farting in a tin. There are so many reflections, and given the average domestic dimensions the room modes (the natural resonant frequencies of the room are slap in the lower mid... spelling MUD in the mix) Same goes for playback. You can have gorgeous monitors and they can sound nasty, phasey (due to an acoustic phenomenon called comb filtering) and if you happen to be in the wrong part of the room, right on the null of a room mode, the bass will mostly cancel out.
Read a bunch of Sound on Sound studio SOS articles from their website, Invest in some slabs of rockwool (mineral wool) from the local builders merchant, and spend an afternoon with some lengths of wood and some fabric covering to make big 4 inch x4'x2' picture frame style absorbers, hang them at the mirror points and be AMAZED at how much better everything sounds, from tracking vocals to mixing a much more balanced sound.
Yeah, if you're planning on actually recording in the room (as in not just through direct lines) then a bit of acoustic treatment is necessary; you can have the most incredible equitment imaginable but if your recorded audio sounds like ass you're not going to get much out of it. Nothing needs to be expensive but just read through a few bits from SOS or all over the internet really, you can find really good advice on this sort of thing anywhere and its really useful.
Good luck though man! There's a lot of people in the same boat as you so you can always check the net for useful information from similar situations =)
Quote from: "DannySoisSage"Yeah, if you're planning on actually recording in the room (as in not just through direct lines) then a bit of acoustic treatment is necessary; you can have the most incredible equitment imaginable but if your recorded audio sounds like ass you're not going to get much out of it. Nothing needs to be expensive but just read through a few bits from SOS or all over the internet really, you can find really good advice on this sort of thing anywhere and its really useful.
Good luck though man! There's a lot of people in the same boat as you so you can always check the net for useful information from similar situations =)
I think I've just had what they call a "light bulb" moment :shock:
.... I've been onto ebay and bought some accoustic foam tiles .. thats a good start :D
Quote from: "Dave M"I think I've just had what they call a "light bulb" moment :shock:
.... I've been onto ebay and bought some accoustic foam tiles .. thats a good start :D
:mrgreen:
You'd be amazed at how much difference just a tiny little thing can make!
Interesting, never thought of that.
Mind you, the only thing I record that would be affected by that is vocals, and the main problem with those isn't reverb from the room... ;)
Synth, guitar, (electric) drums all go over digital connections to the computer. :)
Quote from: "Drarok"Interesting, never thought of that.
Mind you, the only thing I record that would be affected by that is vocals, and the main problem with those isn't reverb from the room... ;)
Synth, guitar, (electric) drums all go over digital connections to the computer. :)
Thats awesome, saves you some pennies on the whole acoustic garb =) Still, you could consider some kind of vocal 'booth' such as you might have seen in such series as 'the Frost* Reports', nothing expensive but bearing in mind what Jem appears to have is a couple of pieces of foam coated wood with a duvet on the top and what he gets out of it goes onto the Frost* CDs, like I say amazing what you can do with just a little bit of stuff! I haven't read the whole thing but there's a question in this months SOS about recording 'dry' vocals in a bad room and there's a few handy suggestions there (hanging a duvet behind the singer for example).
Good luck with the rest, there's a lot of awesome advice in here =) Focus your funds on where you feel they'll be best needed!
Of course, you could always build another room within the room to seperate it from the rest of the structure, which would help with soundproofing. That's a bit expensive, though... :P
WOW this is the best possible reponse ever. lol
thanks very much guys!
I have christmas money to spend and my birthdays in march so il finish everything off then.
and inevitably, i shall blog the construction off the Rob Rideout ProgPit. woop woop.
i think if i do use a keyboard, however it'll be as a midi controller and il get synth patches on my computer. or something but il save this thread an use as much as i can!
and btw, serfox that was an epically helpful post thanks very much for it. it's proper appreciated! :)
i'm-a-gonna ask if Mr G is throwing anything out i could sneak off the scrapheap for peanuts. hehee.
xxx
hmmm...
twitter will not even let me send a direct message thats more than 140 characters long...
So sorry about the publicness of the request but i cant find a way to get my email off without several twittery messages put together, im hoping it will be viewed on here before all the stuff is thrown away and gone. so heres the message i tried to send:
Hullo :),
seeing as how your redoing the studio if you have anything youre throwing away that could be useful in a beginnery studio would you be willing to sell it?
Cheers, Rob
There is definitely stuff headed for the skip like my Omnirax NT workstation thingy.
http://www.omnirax.com/index.php/DisplayProduct/0-96 (http://www.omnirax.com/index.php/DisplayProduct/0-96)
I also have a semi trashed DX7 that just needs a new battery soldering onto the motherboard. You could have both of those for no pounds and no pence. I've got a Roland A37 that I'm not using which you could have for £100. I've also got an Axiom Pro 61 that got about a day's use which you could have for £200. Also for £200 is my Monome 64.
I'm also going to sell my Yamaha VL1, but I'm after a grand and half for that.
Whereabouts are you in the world?
so sad the ocean is so wide, that Omnirax is awesome!
Happy New Year, all!
Quote from: "rogerg"so sad the ocean is so wide, that Omnirax is awesome!
Happy New Year, all!
Too bad I don't have the space.........or anything to put on it. :D
Quote from: "rogerg"so sad the ocean is so wide, that Omnirax is awesome!
Too late for a quick honeymoon to southern England? ;)
Quote from: "Pedro"Quote from: "rogerg"so sad the ocean is so wide, that Omnirax is awesome!
Too late for a quick honeymoon to southern England? ;)
I don't think it would fit in our suitcase!!
and oh, we so wish. someday....
aw WOW! that would save me investing in a huge desky thing as well. And i was scouring Ebay for a midi controller for about £100 as well so that would be fantastic. It depends on when i get it as to where i'l be, my house house is in Bolton near manchester, which will be my delivery address until june next year; so its likely that is where il have to get it to.
If delivery is a problem though, I could always come and pick it up or something to make it easier, i can imagine the stress of moving house is quite enough without anything extra to deal with XD
Dear Doctor,
It's not really any of my business but given a) the stress of house moving, b) the great generous prices, c) the short timescale, d) fairplay, e) etc. I wouldn't be thinking about anyone else arranging delivery or collection - I'd get that sorted yourself.
P x
Quote from: "Pedro"Dear Doctor,
It's not really any of my business but given a) the stress of house moving, b) the great generous prices, c) the short timescale, d) fairplay, e) etc. I wouldn't be thinking about anyone else arranging delivery or collection - I'd get that sorted yourself.
P x
And if you were seeking a second opinion I'd agree totally with Dr Pedders.
Quote from: "johninblack"Quote from: "Pedro"Dear Doctor,
It's not really any of my business but given a) the stress of house moving, b) the great generous prices, c) the short timescale, d) fairplay, e) etc. I wouldn't be thinking about anyone else arranging delivery or collection - I'd get that sorted yourself.
P x
And if you were seeking a second opinion I'd agree totally with Dr Pedders.
Actually if I'd been offered that lot I'd be half way there by now! :D
Quote from: "johninblack"Quote from: "johninblack"Quote from: "Pedro"Dear Doctor,
It's not really any of my business but given a) the stress of house moving, b) the great generous prices, c) the short timescale, d) fairplay, e) etc. I wouldn't be thinking about anyone else arranging delivery or collection - I'd get that sorted yourself.
P x
And if you were seeking a second opinion I'd agree totally with Dr Pedders.
Actually if I'd been offered that lot I'd be half way there by now! :D
Ditto! 8-)
i know i was just wondering where i would pick it up from and when would be best lol
im proper excited :D
sorry if i seemed ungrateful or anything :(
Quote from: "drblowthingsup"aw WOW! that would save me investing in a huge desky thing as well. And i was scouring Ebay for a midi controller for about £100 as well so that would be fantastic. It depends on when i get it as to where i'l be, my house house is in Bolton near manchester, which will be my delivery address until june next year; so its likely that is where il have to get it to.
If delivery is a problem though, I could always come and pick it up or something to make it easier, i can imagine the stress of moving house is quite enough without anything extra to deal with XD
The Omnirax is going in the skip on Monday and I can't deliver it for time reasons, so if you can get down here by Monday, it's all yours. Sorry I can't be of more help mate. :(
J
thats alright il see if i can sort out a lift down there to pick it up asap. :) where exactly is 'there' then? so i know what to put in the trusty ol' satnav.
Quote from: "drblowthingsup"thats alright il see if i can sort out a lift down there to pick it up asap. :) where exactly is 'there' then? so i know what to put in the trusty ol' satnav.
I think any further arrangement should be restricted to PM or email purely for security reasons.
Spoilsport :P
Quote from: "johninblack"Quote from: "drblowthingsup"thats alright il see if i can sort out a lift down there to pick it up asap. :) where exactly is 'there' then? so i know what to put in the trusty ol' satnav.
I think any further arrangement should be restricted to PM or email purely for security reasons.
Isn't that too much trouble?... for Dr. blowthingsup, to PM us all? :mrgreen:
LOL
I am left wondering if any good came of it all. :)
Quote from: "Pedro"LOL
I am left wondering if any good came of it all. :)
Ahhh, yes Pedro. Does anything good come of anything eh ?
Oh sorry, I fell into a pit of despair there.
Yes Pedders, I wonder too :-)
im buying the A37 midi controller but i couldnt get down to pick up the omnirax thing despite asking everyone i knew :( now im troubling about whether to get a iMac or a Macbook Pro. hmm.
My oppinion is get an iMac ;)
I have a 24" iMac and a 13" macbook pro.. and I record on both of them. They both work well, but garageband sometimes gets in a mood and says things like "Too many tracks, effects or notes to be played in real time" on the macbook.
It has to be said that it usually works just be clicking ok and trying again... Its a powerful beast. But I've NEVER had that warning pop up on the iMac ;)
Pricewise the lowest version of both the iMac and the Mabook Pro cost $1,199 (Couldn't be bothered to change to pounds).. But the iMac has 3,06GHz and the macbook 2,4GHz. So there is more processing-power with the iMac.
The iMac also has a bigger screen.. and a big screen is lovely to record on :) So if its just for recording and its ment to be stationary, why not get a big screen :)
If I win the UK's triple Roll-over £17M lottery tonight I'll be on the doorstep of the local Apple shop on the morning! :)
Mmmmmm lottery :D
mmm pizza.
I made a great pizza last night. I put some jalapenos on it - quite a lot, it has to be said - then noticed that there really weren't very many left in the jar, so I added those to the pizza as well. It turned out rather warm. :D
The moral of the story is.. save up money for macs by not eating so much pizza and/or jalapenos.
Yes?