So are Americans cool again?

[Geetar]

History has proven no such thing. Given the policy focus of Democrats and Republicans respectively, and their accompanying fiscal stances, if what you say were true, then this would be impossible:

http://www.washingtonmonthly.com/archiv ... 006282.php


And yet, there it is. Actual analysis, instead of unlettered opinion.


Your earlier diatribe was similarly unhinged:

"overall things were quite good".  

In all kindness, your handle on the roots of the current crisis and  the period in which they originated could use a major overhaul. That, or you should stop engaging in sophistry.

On second thoughts, show us the strength of your case: as an exercise, parse for us the origins of the free market impulse, and dates of the enabling legislation, and the financial sector's commercial response to e.g. Blythe Masters' and William Winters' little piece of handywork back in 1997:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Credit_default_swap


I could cut this torture short for you by pointing out that this crisis took much longer than a decade to make. In truth, it's more like two to three decades of decreasing measures of capital adequacy and/or reserve requirements for all manner of financial institutions- all as a result of reformulation and dilution of regulatory authority requirements ( heavily lobbied for by- ooh, who'd have guessed it- the banking and near-banking sector ), and a geometric increase in securitization and off-balance sheet assets.

All this was in response to the ideological drive for free market solutions that really found their footing with the arrival of Reaganomics, though conceptually the banking deregulatory impulse predated Reagan considerably. Neo-classical economics was in the ascendant and banking sector deregulation was also under way in Thatcher's UK at the same time, as those with a memory longer than last week will attest. As for myself, I was trading interest and currency swaps ( some of the earlier derivatives ) on the London Market way back in '84-'85.


So-back to your starting premise- if we strip the more illusory components of growth from all the Western economies after nearly 30 years of  expanding credit and derivatives in all their forms, and the inflation that inevitably resulted, how "good" do you think the economy really has been in percentage growth terms, and for just exactly how long?


I'm just pointing this out in case anyone reading this outside the US is inclined to take what you wrote as anything other than an intellectually impoverished and highly partisan damage limitation exercise  


As for what you just wrote, I can't even be bothered to comment further. Please take your bitterness - wishing that the President-elect would "crash and burn on the world stage", ignoring as you do the diminution of American pride, prestige and influence that would result from this- and exercise it somewhere else where you may find a more partial and interested audience.

[Mickdoo22]

Impressive, if not TOTALLY misguided post Geetar.  I could spend DAYS posting links to counterpoint your opinionated and slanted "references".....and back and forth we go.  But what is the point??  Your bitterness is obvious.   I won't spend my time or energy defending my views or blowing holes in yours, although frankly, it wouldn't take that long.
  Once you get in your head that the "haves" have because they either screwed someone out of it, or inherited it, and the "have nots" are "victims" of  bad government, nothing will ever sway you.  I choose to believe that the basic concept of hard work should be rewarded.  I will keep it simple for you.....I don't believe greed applies when you are looking to keep what you earn.....I believe greed applies to when you want MORE of what you DIDN'T earn than you are ALREADY taking.

[kyuwert]

Forget that, did you guys know that Eduard Pons Prades, also known as Floreado Barsino, was a Spanish writer and historian, specializing in the 20th-century history of Spain? Pons Prades was also active in the Syndicalist Party of Ángel Pestaña, a member of the Confederación Nacional del Trabajo (CNT), and after Francisco Franco's defeat of the Second Spanish Republic in the Spanish Civil War, a maqui.

Pons Prades was born in the Raval neighborhood of Barcelona. His father, a cabinetmaker, was a Valencian immigrant and a member of the Federal Party of Spain, and founder of a woodworkers' union. His mother, Gloria Prades Núñez, also an immigrant from Valencia, was a member of the Syndicalist Party, and became a member of the Generalitat de Catalunya through the friendship of Martí Barrera, a member of the government.

As a young child, Pons enrolled in the Rationalist School, based on the philosophy of Francesc Ferrer i Guàrdia. There he attended the lectures of the engineer and geologist Alberto Carsi. Pons' focus was always teaching, and attended the Industrial School of Barcelona for this purpose, but these studies were interrupted by the outbreak of the Spanish Civil War in 1936.

That year, Pons' father committed suicide. His uncle, a member of the Federación Anarquista Ibérica, lived to carry the coffin of Buenaventura Durruti in November that year.

Pons' joined the CNT in 1937 and participated in the collectivization of the Consejo Económico de la Madera Socializada and other locations such as the Santa Madrona Church in Poble Sec neighborhood of Barcelona.

[Geetar]

Impressive, if not TOTALLY misguided post Geetar.  I could spend DAYS posting links to counterpoint your opinionated and slanted "references".....and back and forth we go.  But what is the point??  Your bitterness is obvious.   I won't spend my time or energy defending my views or blowing holes in yours, although frankly, it wouldn't take that long.
  Once you get in your head that the "haves" have because they either screwed someone out of it, or inherited it, and the "have nots" are "victims" of  bad government, nothing will ever sway you.  I chose to believe that the basic concept of hard work should be rewarded.  I will keep it simple for you.....I don't believe greed applies when you are looking to keep what you earn.....I believe greed applies to when you want MORE of what you DIDN'T earn than you are ALREADY taking.

No, please do go ahead. You can only inform and educate, or crash and burn. And let us not forget, you're the one wishing ill on Obama's efforts to continue to make America a great nation. I think in terms of bitterness, you  have the market cornered.

By the way, I'm a centrist, politically-speaking, with a degree in strictly neo-classical monetary economics. I'm a fan of some aspects of Hayek's work on a Libertarian approach to deregulation, but I'm aware that human nature often puts profit before principle, so I believe some regulation for ensuring stability and transparency in markets is vital.

What's your credo and qualification?

[Mickdoo22]

You are fairly transparent.....spouting your "qualifications" as if that gives your OPINION more weight than mine?  My "qualifications" are that I am an American tax payer!  Do I need more??


Oh.....and by the way......American's have always been "cool" in my opinion.    

[Drarok]

I'm a fan of some aspects of Hayek's work on a Libertarian approach to deregulation

:?:

[Mickdoo22]

I can see two reasons why I am a fan now too!  :shock:

[Geetar]

You are fairly transparent.....spouting your "qualifications" as if that gives your OPINION more weight than mine?

 "Spouting" ? I have qualifications, but my point ( clearly lost on you ) was that I'm no bleeding heart, either by training or inclination; and your use of the word "spouting" sounds like you're all mouth and no trousers, matey boy. I'm a centrist (you've heard of centrists and know what they are, I trust.... :roll: ) with no axe to grind other than to make a half-decent attempt to crunch the numbers, instead of regurgitating someone else's bile.

And when you say:  "My "qualifications" are that I am an American tax payer!  Do I need more?" the answer is an emphatic yes; unless you actually enjoy looking like a blowhard on a public forum whose members clearly aren't a bunch of reactionary mouth-breathers.

Oh, and agreed Drarok- Selma Hayek is so much more interesting than Friedrich August von Hayek..... especially when she's demonstrating the virtues and efficiencies of liberating herself from artificial support systems.

[Mickdoo22]

Ok....so when all else fails, resort to name calling.......you are a fairly transparent, simple individual Geetar.  
So since you are so intent on reciting your credentials.....out of curiousity, where are you from..(I am assuming UK), and with your oh so impressive education, what do you do for work??

[XeRocks81]

for fuck's sake guys take it to email or pm  :roll:

[Gedfaz]

for fuck's sake guys take it to email or pm  :roll:

Yeah.....Wot the bloke with the Ugly Avatar said.....  

[leelustig]

How are we doin?     New president that everyone's happy about. (most people) plus the ever growing list of Frosties*.  Have we become cool again?

Were we ever uncool?

Just because our president had the IQ of a rock doesn't mean I'm not cool.

[sephiroth198777]

Well damn I didn't expect this topic to get so serious  :lol:   I just felt that we've shown that we are progressive enough to elect someone who promises change from the last 8 horrible years despit his race and ethnicity.  Many people got involved and it really seemed like the whole world was watching and was with us in our decision.

so I guess we can sit at the cool table at lunch?

[Batchain]

Mmm. This has turned into an incredibly boring thread.  I think this forum is about extraordinary music.  Music to play whilst watching big intergalactic space ships take off, with warp drives and stuff, and biscuits.

B xx  

[RacingHippo]

Music to play whilst watching big intergalactic space ships take off, with warp drives and stuff, and biscuits.

And hobbits! Don't forget the hobbits!