I am the first to admit that my visits to Frostieworld* have become few and far between. But with the twitter and blog activity of the day, I have mixed feeling. Feelings of joy that Sir Jem is back on the road, but on the other hand, ........... (pause while I gather my thoughts), I feel a bit let down, there I said it, let down. I don't care if this offends people, no doubt Pedro and others will jump to defend Jem. But after the overwhelming support that this forum has given Jem over the last 3 months, I think we, the product he created deserved better......... A blog entry blaming Frost* !!!! It should have been on here, this is not a music forum, it's Jem's forum, it should be on here............
I see this being my last post Frost* post, so your thoughts please....
Well you don't leave much room for manouever.
You don't care if you offend, you imply that I am a mindless fanboy and you say you're not coming back....
So I shall simply continue to give overwhelming support to Jem in your absence.
Quote from: "Pedro"So I shall simply continue to give overwhelming support to Jem in your absence.
I'm with you!
I think we're all a little sad about the end of Frost* but I don't feel let down, Jem has already given us a lot of Frost* flavored goodies and I for one am very grateful. He owes us nothing.
I doubt anyone would blame you for being disappointed; I'm sure we're all sad to see Jem file Frost* away, but I can't say he owes us a thing. The man gave and gave to us to the point of spoilage. I can't recollect any other musician doing half as much for his fans. I'm grateful for the experiences I've had as a result of his "hobby" and don't begrudge him one bit.
Accepting there will be no more Frost* music is a tough biscuit to swallow. In fact, it sucks. But, I think 'tis better to have Frost* and loved than never to have Frost* at all. :?
Please don't bail on the forum. Frost*ies are still among the finest people in all the land.
Quote from: "Pedro"Well you don't leave much room for manouever.
You don't care if you offend, you imply that I am a mindless fanboy and you say you're not coming back....
So I shall simply continue to give overwhelming support to Jem in your absence.
Sorry Peds, you know I do care, and I apologise :(
I'll just quote (//http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20110415/ap_on_re_us/us_obit_world_s_oldest_man) Walter Breuning who was, until last Thursday when he died, the world's oldest man:
Quote from: "Seriously Old, Wise Dude"Embrace change, even when the change slaps you in the face. ("Every change is good.")
After all, isn't "change" just another word for being "progressive"?
I don't feel let down... I think that to feel let down, you have to have people who actually owe you, or at least, people who promised you things that won't happen. Jem doesn't owe us anything. Frost* was his project, so he can do what he sees fit. No matter what. Even if Frost* was your favorite band. Which did the best you've ever heard/will ever hear. It REALLY DEEPLY sucks to have to deal with that news, but we can't complain, really...
Now, if only Jem could release 1976, as a farewell present, it would make things easier... I've been EAGERLY waiting for this song since I bought Experiments In Mass Appeal with the bonus DVD. I don't care if it's not finished, I need to hear it before I die. That was my little rant.
ooh yes, the 1976 loose end BADLY needs tying up!
To me 1976 was like one of the nails in the coffin. Maybe it's not 'supposed' to get finished and released. If it is then I think that is more likely to come in a few months or years when Jem is feeling the prog itch again. And that is how it should be, it's the way it has always been and that's what has brought us some wonderful music so far.
I'm not too worried at the moment personally. I think the winning formula for frost* was Jem doing something he loved and he is doing the very same thing now but without the frost* weight on his shoulders. Just like back in the milliontown days.
What IS frost* really? To me it's a bunch of great songs. Jem will keep writing songs so will frost* ever really die? We will probably see when he releases his next song. To me that's something to get excited about, god knows what it will be like. It wont be like milliontown that's for sure but neither was eima and tdl wasn't like either of those, the pattern continues sans the frost* name.
Something like that anyway. Maybe.
We probably will lose some posters on the forum, but that's their loss if you ask me.
Word.
Well, if Jem says Frost* is no more, then basically it is all over - it was his band to do with as he wished and I'm just grateful for what we have as a permanent record of a truly great and original band. I'm not going to go over old ground in that regard. However, on reflection, it is exactly this issue which makes me a little puzzled by some of the comments in his new blog.
"I was watching an interview with Peter Gabriel last night from 1980 and in it he explained that one of the reasons he left Genesis was because as it got more successful, he felt it became too safe and less willing to take risks. He didn't want to end up not being able to do what he truly wanted to do creatively for the sake of keeping "the machine" going. I was doing Frost* on and off for 7 years and the longer it went on, the more I felt exactly the same way."
Frost* was Jem's band from day one and he was free to experiment and do whatever he wished - and he frequently did! Line-ups and directions changed. No-one can claim that the last Frost* tracks (The Dividing Line or the track that no-one has heard - FFTCM ;) ) were safe or unrisky efforts, either done just to satisfy fans unwilling to accept any change from previous works or to keep the A&R men from some big record label happy. I would hope Jem did not feel any pressure from us Frostie*s to remain 'safe' as I don't think that was the case - sure, some did only want Milliontown 2 instead of what we got in the form of EIMA but the vast majority who remained on this forum were happy to follow whatever twists and turns Jem's project took (and will no doubt continue to do so with his new projects). As he really did have the freedom to do whatever he wanted within Frost*, I have to say I am a little puzzled and even saddened that his own band appears to be getting the blame for his recent issues and "holiday". :?
That said, I will, of course, continue to frequent this forum and look forward to hearing whatever new aural treats are in store for us from Mr Godfrey...
"Blame" is probably a bit heavy....I think that Frost* just happened to the straw that was breaking the camel's back(?).
If you have to stop doing some of the things you're doing you have to appraise each thing in pretty cold terms...so Frost* had to be shelved. It makes perfect sense, once you understand that it was only ever a *hobby*.
:)
Fair point. 8-) However, I was only going on Jem's own words:-
"Anyway, I found out why I was so unhappy through a process of elimination. Turns out it was Frost*."
No, you're right. It can't be all about workload - cos he is doing extra-curricular stuff- so he has a new hobby, as it were. I just don't like to think that Jem killed Frost* with any bad feelings - that would be even more sad.
Quote from: "Pedro"No, you're right. It can't be all about workload - cos he is doing extra-curricular stuff- so he has a new hobby, as it were. I just don't like to think that Jem killed Frost* with any bad feelings - that would be even more sad.
I read his comments as saying he felt he was under pressure to do more Frost* stuff, even though most of us didn't see it that way. He's just too nice and obliging, and maybe he's one of those people who struggles to say no.
I know what it's like to have a hobby take over your life to the point of putting you under stress. I used to breed horses as a pastime, but when I got to four (with another foal due), as well as holding down a full time job, I suddenly realised I was spending all my time looking after them, and none enjoying them, and I needed my life back, so I sold the lot. I didn't make myself physically ill like Jem, but for the next couple of years, even seeing a horsebox on the road brought back memories of the pressure, and much as I miss my horses, it's unlikely I'll own another until after I retire.
Based on that, I think we're lucky that Jem's decided his extra-curricular activities can still include music, albeit not in 7/8 :)
Just to focus on the hobby / part-time / for a laugh / relief from pop, comments that have been made from the start when we talk of Jem and Frost*, may I be the one who points out that there are very few prog bands / musicians on the circuit who do not have full time occupations and families. Those who are full time need to diversify by playing with several groups, session work etc, look at it Bites, JM plays with everyone, BD plays with a corporate entertainment band. But let's face it, Jem is a full time musician, producer, arranger who has had the luxury of putting weeks at a time of his schedule to Frost*.
Imagine an ice cream vendor, vanilla would be his bread and butter, he gets bored with vanilla and decides to create Tutti Frutti, and hey, Tutti Frutti becomes a brilliant success, people can't get enough. Yes it's harder to make, with more components and takes a bit more time than vanilla. But he is still an ice cream vendor, just selling different products. The ice cream vendor is tired and is doing too much, so rather than realise his business needs help, he goes on holiday. On his return, he decides not to sell Tutti Frutti anymore and sticks to vanilla instead. All his Tutti Frutti customers were disappointed, not wanting vanilla, and went to see Ben & Jerry.
Quote from: "Neilgwhite"Imagine an ice cream vendor, vanilla would be his bread and butter, he gets bored with vanilla and decides to create Tutti Frutti, and hey, Tutti Frutti becomes a brilliant success, people can't get enough. Yes it's harder to make, with more components and takes a bit more time than vanilla. But he is still an ice cream vendor, just selling different products. The ice cream vendor is tired and is doing too much, so rather than realise his business needs help, he goes on holiday. On his return, he decides not to sell Tutti Frutti anymore and sticks to vanilla instead. All his Tutti Frutti customers were disappointed, not wanting vanilla, and went to see Ben & Jerry.
But vanilla makes the money to pay the bills whereas Tutti Frutti actually (probably) makes him a loss. The Tutti Frutti customers might be disappointed but he simply can't stop making vanilla so whats the guy to do?
He hasn't gone back to vanilla anyway. There will always be vanilla. he has just exchanged Tutti Frutti with chocolate.
Quote from: "JakeWorrell"Quote from: "Neilgwhite"Imagine an ice cream vendor, vanilla would be his bread and butter, he gets bored with vanilla and decides to create Tutti Frutti, and hey, Tutti Frutti becomes a brilliant success, people can't get enough. Yes it's harder to make, with more components and takes a bit more time than vanilla. But he is still an ice cream vendor, just selling different products. The ice cream vendor is tired and is doing too much, so rather than realise his business needs help, he goes on holiday. On his return, he decides not to sell Tutti Frutti anymore and sticks to vanilla instead. All his Tutti Frutti customers were disappointed, not wanting vanilla, and went to see Ben & Jerry.
But vanilla makes the money to pay the bills whereas Tutti Frutti actually (probably) makes him a loss. The Tutti Frutti customers might be disappointed but he simply can't stop making vanilla so whats the guy to do?
He hasn't gone back to vanilla anyway. There will always be vanilla. he has just exchanged Tutti Frutti with chocolate.
:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
I've just spotted some comments at the bottom of the blog post that I think answer pretty much everyone's questions here
Quotethere were contractual obs actually, InsideOut have the option on a third album.
Secondly, I did consider doing this new stuff as Frost*, but decided against it in the end as it would then always be judged in reference to the previous work. I want a clean break, free from the back catalogue. Also, I don't want to have to do gigs and be obliged to play older Frost material in amongst the new stuff, I deeply respect Frost's fans and feel that insouciantly ignoring the past would be counterproductive to their evening's entertainment.
Additionally, it also enforces a template. There'd have to be guitar and drums and bass on the new stuff else it would leave members of the band with nothing to do live. It would also enforce that I'd have to work with the same musicians. Part of the appeal of going forwards is that I can diversify the collaborative talent pool.
I hope that answers your q's. Thanks for sharing your thoughts. :) J
So there we have it. It's not the end. Its a new beginning. Now that I have come to terms with the end of Frost* I am genuinely excited.
I hope you're feeling a bit better about it all now Neil anyway, I must admit I was a bit disappointed to see your initial post but its an emotional time for everyone involved so I think we all understand.
Quote from: "JakeWorrell"So there we have it. It's not the end. Its a new beginning. Now that I have come to terms with the end of Frost* I am genuinely excited.
I hope you're feeling a bit better about it all now Neil anyway, I must admit I was a bit disappointed to see your initial post but its an emotional time for everyone involved so I think we all understand.
The only thing that got my goat yesterday was the fact that with so much respect for Frost* fans, a thank you i'm alive and well note on the forum would have been appropriate, along with a note about putting Tutti Frutti to bed and starting again with Chocolate ice cream.
Where is this blog of which you speak ?
I'm a Frost fan, but above all else, I'm a Jem fan ... So if theres a way i can get a little Jem fix I'll be happy.
I miss the madcaptomfoolery of Godders, but Frost is over, sad but true, but maybe ... one day...
http://jemgodfrey.blogspot.com/2011/04/ ... -bill.html (http://jemgodfrey.blogspot.com/2011/04/godfreys-utility-bill.html)
Quote from: "Dave M"....but Frost is over, sad but true, but maybe ... one day...
That's the spirit, glass half full and all that! :)
Maybe Jem can allow Russel to take the good bits of the Derby filming to release a goodbye Frosties video, that would be a nice touch, wouldn't feel like unfinished business, what do you think? I understand there's a good 15 mins, that'd be nice :P
QuoteMaybe Jem can allow Russel to take the good bits of the Derby filming to release a goodbye Frosties video
I'd be happy to sync some kazoo parts to that...that just leaves spoons, washboard, jews harp and digeridoo. Any takers?
Spoons. Do you need to ask?? ;)
Quote from: "Gman"QuoteMaybe Jem can allow Russel to take the good bits of the Derby filming to release a goodbye Frosties video
I'd be happy to sync some kazoo parts to that...that just leaves spoons, washboard, jews harp and digeridoo. Any takers?
I'll take up the washboard, been practicing Washing LIne Machine all day
Panic over, just found all Jem's gear in an eBay auction, so we're sorted for the dodgy sections of the dvd
//http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Korg-Roland-Yamaha-keyboard-synth-speakers-job-lot-/260767604868?pt=UK_MusicalInstr_Keyboard_RL&hash=item3cb6f5e084#ht_834wt_1141
Hey there's an old HH amp in there, I used to run a HH head on my bass rig, brilliant gear. Are we having a whip round?
Quote from: "Neilgwhite"Panic over, just found all Jem's gear in an eBay auction, so we're sorted for the dodgy sections of the dvd
//http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Korg-Roland-Yamaha-keyboard-synth-speakers-job-lot-/260767604868?pt=UK_MusicalInstr_Keyboard_RL&hash=item3cb6f5e084#ht_834wt_1141
Hey there's an old HH amp in there, I used to run a HH head on my bass rig, brilliant gear. Are we having a whip round?
Are you sure this is Jem's stuff? Why's it in Coventry? Perhaps because Frost* has been sent there?
All this talk of ice cream is making me hungry , one thought though you can take the boy out of the tutti frutti but you cant take tutti frutti out of the boy ;) keep the faith.
Quote from: "Neilgwhite"Quote from: "Gman"QuoteMaybe Jem can allow Russel to take the good bits of the Derby filming to release a goodbye Frosties video
I'd be happy to sync some kazoo parts to that...that just leaves spoons, washboard, jews harp and digeridoo. Any takers?
I'll take up the washboard, been practicing Washing LIne Machine all day
G,day,i,ll happily filch my neighbours(..well used!!)didgeriwhatsit,from his travels in Oz if theres a chance of a spot in the ethnic,world music,band of chancers choir thingy! ;) i have to admit previous attempts at banging out a tune on the infernal thing,brought on sinus problems and ridicule,but me likes a challenge!yours hopefully,Rolf Harris :twisted:
Quote from: "D S"Fair point. 8-) However, I was only going on Jem's own words:-
"Anyway, I found out why I was so unhappy through a process of elimination. Turns out it was Frost*."
The confusing part for me is that, through all the youtube videos and live gigs, Jem seemed to be happy and genuinely having fun. Having said that, if he feels Frost* needs to be consigned to the past, then that's his prerogative to do so. As for "franchising Frost*" so that someone else could take it over, that's like Yes without Jon Anderson.
It's all so sad :cry:
Well, yes, it is possible to view it as being sad...but I can't see as being *only* sad.
I want to think of it as "just another good stop along the good king's highway".
Had I encounterd Jem via a YouTube about writing Atomic Kitten's "Whole Again", I doubt I would have engaged at all. It was only the music of Frost* that made me interested in the other stuff he did/does...but he was just as brilliant and taleneted before Frost* as he no doubt will continue to be from now on.
So, it's an evolution/re-incarnation thing in my eyes - the caterpillar was very fun and very pretty...the butterfly could/should be even more interesting and exciting.
BTW If I had the Photoshop skills and I could find a suitable image, there would be a picture on the website homepage of a tortoise, with "FROST*" painted on its shell, disappearing into a cardboard box full of hay/straw for a good long hibernation in a nice warm airing cupboard. :)
Quote from: "Pedro"Well, yes, it is possible to view it as being sad...but I can't see as being *only* sad.
I want to think of it as "just another good stop along the good king's highway".
Had I encounterd Jem via a YouTube about writing Atomic Kitten's "Whole Again", I doubt I would have engaged at all. It was only the music of Frost* that made me interested in the other stuff he did/does...but he was just as brilliant and taleneted before Frost* as he no doubt will continue to be from now on.
So, it's an evolution/re-incarnation thing in my eyes - the caterpillar was very fun and very pretty...the butterfly could/should be even more interesting and exciting.
BTW If I had the Photoshop skills and I could find a suitable image, there would be a picture on the website homepage of a tortoise, with "FROST*" painted on its shell, disappearing into a cardboard box full of hay/straw for a good long hibernation in a nice warm airing cupboard. :)
Let's hope it is a hibernation Pedro. Nice quote from "Our Song" by the way :)
While I agree with your general sentiments here, Keith, I'd go as far as to say that a Frost* without Jem is far less sustainable than a Yes without Jon Anderson. After all, as much of a fan of everything up to Tormato as I am, I actually have quite a bit of time for Drama, and even if I'm much less a fan of Rabin-era 90125 and beyond, the track "Cinema" which was recorded without Anderson, is top notch stuff (even if not particularly Yes, I'll admit).
But I digress: IMHO, Frost* is so intimately dependent on Jem that a Frost* without him makes no sense whatsoever. I know that he means well by suggesting that others take over Frost* in order to keep open the possibility of Milliontown and EIMA being played live and perhaps even write new material, but it strikes me that by doing so, strangely enough, he's almost denying the whole point of his utterly central role in Frost*. To me, there can be no meaningful Frost* without Jem.
So, rather than spin out an ersatz Frost*, I'd rather see it iced (sorry): giving others ownership is a pretty irrevocable move and precludes any possible future reconsiderations, even if that seems like wishful thinking at this point.
As I've said before: the Frost* is dead; long live the Frost* (even if the new Frost* resides in suspended animation in a deep, dark pool of liquid nitrogen 8-) )
On a more positive note, like almost everyone else hereabouts, I shall await Jem's next musical moves regardless ...
Pedro. . . . . will this do? :D
(//http://i423.photobucket.com/albums/pp318/pip1066/frost_hibernation.jpg)
Ah Paul, as reliable as beaming a bat-signal into the clouds.
Nice work. :)
Cheers Pedro. . . . . . I hope you're right about the hibernation. Jem and JM seemed to get on so well together I can't see them not working together again in the near future. :)
Quote from: "Paul"Cheers Pedro. . . . . . I hope you're right about the hibernation. Jem and JM seemed to get on so well together I can't see them not working together again in the near future. :)
hear, hear.
Apropos of very little at all (apart from a continued need to "share" during these difficult times :D ), I was scanning through my Freesat / hard drive recorder box last night looking for things to delete, as it's getting full and Doctor Who is about to start up again.
As a result, I found myself rewatching (but not deleting) "Synth Britannia at the BBC", a compilation of performances by various well-known synth bands in the late 70s and early 80s. Some very good stuff in there (Japan playing "Ghosts" on The Old Grey Whistle Test with Ryuichi Sakamoto of the legendary Yellow Magic Orchestra) and some equally dire (whatever did anyone ever see in Sparks?), but in the present context, I was struck by one of the sub-titles shown during OMD's performance of "Messages".
Namely that Andy McCluskey of OMD was subsequently responsible for putting together the original line-up of Atomic Kitten: I had somehow missed that weird connection. A quick google later, and I then knew that he co-wrote their number 1 song (and his first ever, apparently; did OMD never have a number 1?) "Whole Again" with our Jemster.
Of course, I knew of Jem's AK connection, but a further revelation (of the admittedly extremely minor variety) was that although Chipshop Katona sang on the original version of "Whole Again", she was replaced for the subsequent video filming by none other than Jenny, err, Frost :o
Which left me in the couch at midnight last night, slightly slack-jawed, considering how Jem may have come up with the name for his (ex-)band and pondering possible connections between "Dear Dead Days" and "Snog, Marry, Avoid" :shock:
I need to get a life.
Quote from: "Trapezium Artist"...Which left me in the couch at midnight last night...
Like this?
(//http://i.neoseeker.com/mgv/203072-hiigaran/72/23/pict0186_display.jpg)
Quote from: "catherine"Quote from: "Trapezium Artist"...Which left me in the couch at midnight last night...
Like this?
(//http://i.neoseeker.com/mgv/203072-hiigaran/72/23/pict0186_display.jpg)
Touché. I'd be tempted to go back and edit my post, but where'd the fun be on that? ;)
Quote from: "catherine"Quote from: "Trapezium Artist"...Which left me in the couch at midnight last night...
Like this?
(//http://i.neoseeker.com/mgv/203072-hiigaran/72/23/pict0186_display.jpg)
Ha!ha!cannibalized by the upholstery ;) I,m hoping the hibernation theory has legs myself,but the wonderful thing about Frost*is the interest its given me in the music of the individual musicians who,ve played in the band :D Curiousity in the Frost*reports(..and much laughter!)and Andy,s drumming,led me to the music,and then the craft in the songs made me a fan!I,m now listening to D.A.M,explored all the stuff that JJ and JM have been involved in,..and love it,and i c,ant say enough about Andy and Craigs drumming ;) For me,its all good,...it continues,i travelled to the Peel on my ownsome last Dec.to see DOTR,(..could,nt get to the Frost*gigs)and just felt...great!..odd that! ;) Anyhoo,so ends my noobie gush,..must go,..baking a cake!! :roll:
This seems as good-an opportunity as any to sidle back in to the forum.
I had been keeping away from twitter for the last month, so when I popped back on to report on the Imogen Heap gig in Melbourne (very very cool btw) I was thrilled to see that Jem was active again. It occurred to me that perhaps if he was on twitter he might be on his blog as well, and lo and behold there was a new post!
I join the rest of the community (well... the VAST majority at least) in congratulating Jem on having the courage to make a difficult decision, and in wishing him the best in the future. I am going to miss the hell out of Frost*, but I'm no prog-hardliner, and I'm thrilled to hear what he's got up his sleeve, whether it's in 31/32 or 4/4.
I'm going to break ranks on one point though, and suggest that I think a Frost*-franchise could actually work pretty well. I think the Yes comparisons are appropriate - Nu-Frost* might be different (perhaps VERY different), but then as somebody said (and it's too late and too many wines in to check who it was), most if not all of us found Frost* through the music rather than through the personality. Jem's remarkably entertaining fan-interaction was a bonus - and quite a delightful one - but who's to say that the next guy (or girl?!) might not be able to bring something equally valuable to the table? To be honest I'm thinking less of Trevor Rabin, more of Trevor Horn. Of course Yes made only one album with him, but I still happen to think that it was a pretty cool album :)
And of course the best part is, as music fans, we'd get to listen to nu-Frost* AND whatever Jem is doing. And I'm sure the door would always be open for Jem to step back into the fold and either contribute to or re-take control of the whole deal.
Of course none of my enthusiasm is in any way linked with the idea that I might quite like the gig :? :shock:
At any rate, I'm really pleased to see Jem alive and posting. Good times :)
Welcome back Nick. :)
How's things with you, the band and the next album?
I hear what you're saying but I can't help thinking that a franchised Frost* could be like the likes of Russell Brand, Ricky Gervais and Michael McIntyre trying to remake Monty Python.
Having said that, I'd give anyone attempting it every chance to make a go of it. :)
I still prefer to think of Frost* as one of the cars in Jem's garage. He can't drive them all and it's time to drive some of the others for as long as he wants. Dust-sheeted and looked after, it should be good for a spin sometime far in the future. I'm not talking in terms of a Frost*-free year with gigs just a few months in to it ;)....I'm talking a proper break....even a Transatlantic-style outage. If I'm wrong I'll be happy to be wrong, there'll be no bitterness, but if I'm right....it will be glo-o-o-orious! :D
Quote from: "Trapezium Artist"...and some equally dire (whatever did anyone ever see in Sparks?)
Lots. ;)
Propaganda, Kimono My House. Two superb albums, and several great singles and good albums thereafter.
IMHO. :twisted:
True. I liked Propaganda a lot too. :)
Quote from: "Ivor"Quote from: "Trapezium Artist"...and some equally dire (whatever did anyone ever see in Sparks?)
Lots. ;)
Propaganda, Kimono My House. Two superb albums, and several great singles and good albums thereafter.
IMHO. :twisted:
Oops ... should've known that with the catholic musical tastes round these parts, someone would like the surly little dictator / comedian impersonator and his squeaky-voiced curly compatriot :shock:
That's Sparks: Surly and Curly ... ;)
(No offence meant; I can't even say that I've heard those apparently well-regarded albums; a path I've never trodden)
TBH, if you removed Russell Maels' voice from a lot of the tracks on either Propaganda or Kimono, you'd be hard pushed to distinguish it from a lot of prog. I kid thee not! Lots of quite intricate, but very cheekily phrased stuff in there, with Martin Gordons' grinding Rickenbacker providing the locomotion for Adrian Fishers' more-than-ample guitar. Very clever stuff, with more than a hint of homage to Mr Zappa.
Quote from: "Pedro"I still prefer to think of Frost* as one of the cars in Jem's garage. He can't drive them all and it's time to drive some of the others for as long as he wants. Dust-sheeted and looked after, it should be good for a spin sometime far in the future.
That's a really nice analogy Pedro. I do recall somewhere (in the distant past) an article by Jem, where he discussed prog (Frost*) in terms of driving a red Ferrari.
B xx :)
Quote from: "Pedro"Welcome back Nick. :)
How's things with you, the band and the next album?
Cheeers :)
I am well - recently made redundant at work along with our whole production department (boooo) but bouncing back nicely having re-entered the same market with a colleague and I hanging out our own shingle (yaaaay!)
The band/album - we had a good long talk recently about the glacial progress and general malaise surrounding the project, and we've implemented a pretty radical shift in how we're approaching things. More on that soon, through the appropriate channels :)
QuoteI hear what you're saying but I can't help thinking that a franchised Frost* could be like the likes of Russell Brand, Ricky Gervais and Michael McIntyre trying to remake Monty Python.
I don't think "remake" is the right term though. That hypothetical grouping wouldn't be doing the dead parrot sketch or the argument sketch anew for the 21st century, so much as continuing doing surrealist sketch comedy in the same vein. Honestly, if it was done with the blessing (or even at the behest of) Jones, Idle, Gilliam, Cleese et. al I would have no problem with that whatsoever.
QuoteI still prefer to think of Frost* as one of the cars in Jem's garage. He can't drive them all and it's time to drive some of the others for as long as he wants. Dust-sheeted and looked after, it should be good for a spin sometime far in the future. I'm not talking in terms of a Frost*-free year with gigs just a few months in to it ;)....I'm talking a proper break....even a Transatlantic-style outage. If I'm wrong I'll be happy to be wrong, there'll be no bitterness, but if I'm right....it will be glo-o-o-orious! :D
I do quite like that simile as well. But even if a Frost*-franchise were to eventuate, I'm sure it could be structured in such a way that the keys be handed back to Jem at his behest should he wish to take it for a spin again.
Interesting ideas by all, especially for Jem to have suggested franchising Frost* in the first place.
I guess it would be possible to write/record/perform music vaguely in the style, or at least sympathetic to the Frost* we all know and love - but if were possible to analyse and 'bottle' the essence of Frost*, the muso's amongst us would have probably all done it long ago! Our existing In-house forum musos have already produced a thing of beauty in their Frost* inspired forum collaboration, but to my mind, as wonderful as it is, it doesn't SOUND like Frost* - and I hope I'm not speaking out of turn Ron, Ped and the guys, but I don't think it was ever intended to. But it certainly pays 'homage' and is brilliantly put together.
So how do you take a thing like this forward? Genesis tribute bands can analyse all of the back catalogue and pretty much perfectly replicate the sounds of the original. I went to see the Musical Box a few years back and all credit to them, close your eyes and it's Genesis. Open them again, however, and despite the slipperman costumes etc, its not Banks, Gabriel Hackett etc on stage. But I suppose it could be argued that the Genesis reformation in 2007 bore little resemblance to my 'minds eye' image of the on stage Genesis of the late 70's. They're all 30 years older and Phil, bless 'im, looked it.
With Frost* however, unless we're talking about a tribute act (and I hope we're not) then how to write new material in the style of a certain Jem Godfey (let alone play the bugger!)? Is it such an emotional thing that analysis and reverse engineering it would destroy it?
The thing is whatever Jem records has an indefinable 'Jem-ness' to it, wether it be Frost*, ELO covers, top 20 chart singles or funny stuff. How do you follow that?
I know I've posed a few problems and no answers whatsoever - but I'm not aiming to be negative. I genuinely would LOVE something like this to take off, and indeed be involved with it to some point, but I'm interested to hear if anyone has any ideas on the above. I sort of think I have at least ONE answer, which is a bit of a no-brainer anyway: if such a project consciously strives to meticulously tick all the Frost* boxes it will probably sound quite laboured and sterile, - if on the other hand, it carried on in the SPIRIT of Frost*, it would have the freedom and vitality which Jem originally found - but now feels that he has lost - when he started writing his fledgling prog album all those years ago.
In this day and age do you need a band? Maybe having other musicians around, even the talented sort in Frost* are holding him back. Aside from "rock" that's not how music seems to be made these days. Provided he's happy music will come. It wasn't (pretty obviously from his rants) towards the end, hence the writers block, etc. Sit back and wait. If it's good then great. If you don't like it then (re-)listen to Milliontown/ EIMA.
I would like to know which of Atomic Kitten TA would snog/marry/avoid though.
Quote from: "owen"I would like to know which of Atomic Kitten TA would snog/marry/avoid though.
Well, since you ask, young man ... :D I suspect Jenny Frost* ( ;) ) would definitely fall in the first category; as for the rest, I'll plead the fifth.
Which one of them was fifth?
And was she augmented?
Quote from: "sawtooth"Interesting ideas by all, especially for Jem to have suggested franchising Frost* in the first place.
Yeah, I must say the only reason I even feel comfortable discussing it is because it was his idea.
Quoteunless we're talking about a tribute act (and I hope we're not) then how to write new material in the style of a certain Jem Godfey (let alone play the bugger!)? Is it such an emotional thing that analysis and reverse engineering it would destroy it?
The thing is whatever Jem records has an indefinable 'Jem-ness' to it, wether it be Frost*, ELO covers, top 20 chart singles or funny stuff. How do you follow that?
I think the key to something like this would be to avoid doing a Jem Godfrey pastiche, and just strive forward with the same "Prog Rock with a capital PROGRESSIVE" ideology & sense of fun.
There's no perfect analogy, but the closest I've been able to come up at this point is Doctor Who. The creative team and the cast of the show have changed scores of times over the last 50 years, but heart of the show, and the underlying premise of "eccentric multi-centenarian travels time and space in a blue box having adventures" is still there. When I was a kid watching Tom Baker I would never have imagined that there could be a Doctor better than the fourth. But I'm a complete and unabashed Matt Smith/Steven Moffat fanboy now.
Quoteif such a project consciously strives to meticulously tick all the Frost* boxes it will probably sound quite laboured and sterile, - if on the other hand, it carried on in the SPIRIT of Frost*, it would have the freedom and vitality which Jem originally found - but now feels that he has lost - when he started writing his fledgling prog album all those years ago.
That's pretty much how I see it as well :) I would expect that any Frost*-2/Frost*-TNG would incorporate a few tips of the hat to the aesthetic that Jem established, but ultimately if the baton is to be passed, then the new person would best serve the legacy by following their own muse. Extending the Doctor Who comparison; look at the tonal shift that the show has undergone since Steven Moffat took over last year. It feels markedly different to the Russel T Davies era, but still maintains its "Doctor Who-ness".
*shrug*
I see one big reason to do it, and that is to finish 1976. Ever since I heard that little piece in that Frost* report, I've been hooked, and really wanna hear it finished. That's a brilliant theme, it's a shame if it remains unused. Hopefully Jem can put it in some kind of context, but we just don't know if or when.
Been thinking about stealing that part for ages. :lol:
This is a fascinating topic to explore. Particularly the notion of trying to take an unfinished work and add our own 'frog DNA' (Ref Jurassic Park) to make a viable creature.
It strikes me as slightly similar to one of "what happened next?" gameshow rounds (UK example = BBC Question of Sport).
Contestants view a clip from a sporting event, it is paused and they have to try to guess what happens next.
Typically it is actually something quite unexpected.
This was actually my thinking when I recorded the first steps in what turned out to be the FFCS project....taking the little snippet at the very end of Milliontown and wondering what might happen next?
It is perhaps unsurprising that the project so far has "referred" quite heavily to the likes of Snowman and Hyper-V. Where 'new' stuff has been created, I don't think it sounds that much like Frost*....which is also not a bad thing in many ways.
The temptation to repeat/re-cycle stuff is enormous - can anyone who is not Jem determine what really does happen next? Interesting indeed. :)
Re: It feels as though it's all over............
Have we heard the fat lady sing yet?
Not here. :)
*puts fingers in ears and sings "la, la, la, la, la" in 5/4 ;)
Besides, shouldn't this thread be called "Feels like over"?
I must say it feels a little strange though that Jem has started blogging again in earnest, and planning future youtube videos, and we are still discussing it here but he's not posting here anymore because obviously Frost* is done and whatever he's doing is absolutely not Frost*.
You're quite right, it's absolutely not Frost*....but it is Jem and that's good news in my book.
He appears to be happy, healthy and making new music that obviously excites him. He did that before and look what we got :) ...so I can't feel anything but upbeat about this.
I'd like to think he'll pop in here again sometime (even if Frost* music is not on his radar) if/when he wants to.
That's the thing, it's Jem, and that's great. I don't really consider myself a Frostie, more of a Godfrey-ist, so it doesn't matter if the new musc isn't Frost*, prog, technical or whatever... it's still exciting. I hope we get to hear more of his insane electronic side. :D
Here's the problem, like most people on this forum I'm genuinely happy that jem is back to his old self again and apparently a very happy bunny I'm also quite exited hes making music again, although i have to admit I'm hoping its more rock than electronic [love it to be prog but we know it wont ] but here's the rub every time i get excited about the new jem stuff i get sad because it reminds me frost is no more and frost have meant so much to me it still hurts. :D :cry: :?
IIRC the last lady to sing for Frost* (on The Dividing Line) was this one:
(//http://www.thelineofbestfit.com/wp-content/media/2009/12/tara_busch.jpg)
Fat lady? I think "no" :D
Quote from: "Pedro"This is a fascinating topic to explore. Particularly the notion of trying to take an unfinished work and add our own 'frog DNA' (Ref Jurassic Park) to make a viable creature.
Mmmmmnnnniiiinteresting.
I must confess that none of my imaginings of a Jem-less (or Jem-lite) Frost* continuation/second coming ever incorporated half-finished work being handed over. But that said, I suppose why not? If there's to be a passing of the torch as it were, a piece that was neither quite old-guard or new-guard would make for a fascinating transition piece.
QuoteThe temptation to repeat/re-cycle stuff is enormous - can anyone who is not Jem determine what really does happen next?
Repeat/re-cycle is not in and of itself a bad thing though. I had a fresh skim through the "View from the Cube" blog entries during the recent drought, and I'm reminded of his comments about the influence that Pallas' Ronnie Brown had on Jem's style. Beatles/Lennon's "Hide your Love Away" is one of my favourite songs of all time, and it's basically Lennon trying to ape Bob Dylan (who I don't really like all that much). I wonder if the key isn't perhaps not being a perfect mimic, so you're forced to incorporate your own ideas as well. I suppose that only works if your own ideas are up to scratch also ;)
Quote from: "Pedro"I'd like to think he'll pop in here again sometime (even if Frost* music is not on his radar) if/when he wants to.
I reckon he'll pop by when the time is right, leaving something is an odd old business and I have found in the past that you tend to want to distance yourself from it entirely for a while.
This all reminds me of the good old days of the EIMA writing process; back on the blog, the excitement, the uncertainty that its going to be 'milliontown 2' (for the record - I think EIMA is the better album). Hopefully the YouTube goodness will follow shortly.
This all puts us in a great position, if you like the new stuff you can tell yourself it is Frost 3 (but don't tell Jem, he'll have a nervous breakdown). If you don't like it you can think to yourself "well that's ok, it's not frost, it's Jem having a nervous breakdown" ( but don't tell Jem because he isn't really having a nervous breakdown).
So, everyone's a winner really.
I'd be the first to say more Frost* right now would be great, no argument.
But, as we know, this won't happen.
Frost* was a breath of fresh air and not Prog (with a capital 'P'), it was 'progressive'. A pedantic distinction, arguably, but I think it is significant. What can Jem do with another part of the musical spectrum?
Frost* was NEVER meant to be a 'forever' project (this was declared at the start) and I think it's clear that Jem now just wants to do something else. I might want things to be different (i.e. carry on as it was) but I simply see no point in my mourning it for too long. My hope remains for a future return....one day. Some people seem to only be able to see this in terms of being either back on exactly as it was or completely dead forever, black or white. I'm just not like that.
I've still got everything that the Frost* experience gave me. That can't be taken away.
So now I want to see/hear what's next and see if I like it.
Quote from: "turbo"... but here's the rub every time i get excited about the new jem stuff i get sad because it reminds me frost is no more and frost have meant so much to me it still hurts. :D :cry: :?
I know exactly where you're coming from, turbo: Frost* is Jem, but Jem isn't Frost*, if you see what I mean, and although I'm a big fan of Jem, I think I'm an even bigger fan of Frost*.
Thus, the end of Frost* does hurt deeply. That implies no disloyalty to Jem and I'm sure whatever he comes up with will be interesting and perhaps even more; but I think it's nevertheless entirely acceptable to mourn Frost* at the same time.
Quote from: "Trapezium Artist"....the end of Frost*.... ....it's nevertheless entirely acceptable to mourn Frost* at the same time.
Is there no room for any hope in such black/white terminology?
Are we really determined to cement this as
The End?
Quote from: "Pedro"Are we really determined to cement this as The End?
I'm not. Who knows what future may or may not bring.
Quote from: "JakeWorrell"Quote from: "Pedro"Are we really determined to cement this as The End?
I'm not. Who knows what future may or may not bring.
Jadis
Quote from: "Pedro"Quote from: "Trapezium Artist"....the end of Frost*.... ....it's nevertheless entirely acceptable to mourn Frost* at the same time.
Is there no room for any hope in such black/white terminology?
Are we really determined to cement this as The End?
i don't think its meant to be so finale its just that for the foreseeable future it does indeed seem to be the end, there is of course always some hope to cling onto as with respect jem dose give the impression of being a little bit fickle at times [sorry jem i love you mate but it does seem that way ] but i fear we wont see them for a significant time which is indeed very sad, all of this aside i do very much look forward to the new stuff onwards and upwards.
Cool. I'd prolly not say "fickle" but I get what you're driving at. :)
Lets say changeable then. :lol:
Word (literally) :D ;)
"Remember that death is not the end, but only a transition."
Some Dream Theater wisdom for us all.
. . . . . try telling that to the parrot! ;)
Quote from: "turbo"Lets say changeable then. :lol:
Mercurial?
Quote from: "Pedro"Quote from: "Trapezium Artist"....the end of Frost*.... ....it's nevertheless entirely acceptable to mourn Frost* at the same time.
Is there no room for any hope in such black/white terminology?
Are we really determined to cement this as The End?
I certainly understand where you're coming from, Pedro, and there are moments when I feel this might only be a hiatus, albeit I'd say probably a long one at best. Indeed, part of my reticence regarding the franchising idea is that I suspect that it would narrow the window of opportunity for a return to a Frost* we'd really like to see.
But I'm also aware that some of this may just be wishful thinking and I'd place the odds at, say, 70:30 that Frost* is in fact done for good. While Jem's clearly in a better place already (the latest blog post and the nascent interactivity going on in the comments to it), Frost* seems to be "The Band of Which We Do Not Speak" (sorry, that's about as much of a reference I'm willing to make to the execrable film "The Village", which I lost good sleep staying up watching last week).
Sorry, too many cross-references: I hope Frost* isn't gone forever, but I tend to suspect that it is. Jem, however, is clearly back and I do look forward to hearing what he's coming up with.
I was seriously depressed when I read that Frost* was over. Even my house-mate, who I had successfully converted to Frost and prog in general, felt my pain. I was so eagerly awaiting the live dvd from Derby because I had in fact bought a ticket to see them in Manchester but finances and other commitments meant that I simply couldn't go. Both albums were favourites of mine and The Dividing Line was a perfectly epic prologue to the next album, which (correct me if I'm wrong) was in the pipeline- to be released online or something like that? Either way, the point remains that I LITERALLY COULDN'T WAIT FOR MORE FROST*... and then this happened, and it sucked balls. Alot of balls. I purchased the Philadelphia experiment and a t-shirt from what was supposed to be the Derby dvd gig to try and mitigate things... and it did, but paradoxically made things worse- hearing the awesome quality of the sound, production, togetherness of the band and just musical sex of Philadelphia Experiment, as well as the the extremely personal and hilarious dvd extra, made me proud to be a Frost* fan and what's more... it made me feel privileged to be a Frost* fan and it was just so upsetting that it was to be left on a perpetual cliffhanger.
That's the problem I guess, with something so special you can only ever be privileged to have been privy to it- not entitled to it.... I understand and support Jem's decision but that doesn't mean I have to like it. heh, funny, 'A hero's ending... you're the one who must survive' from BML just played... not really sure how to interpret that.
Frost* Will Never Be "Over". Completed, as in its Original Manifestation, Probably, But Never Over!! We are Not Letting it end... viewtopic.php?f=8&t=2030 (http://www.frost-music.co.uk/frosties/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=2030)
There needs to be More of this!! And Ron, needs More Support, Im as Guilty as they Come :( !! Lets Complete this one First!! 8-)
Quote from: "eXpendable"I was seriously depressed
A minor cure for your depression.
You don't mention something that doesn't exist.
Is that because you haven't heard it because you can't listen to something that wasn't released, or is it because you might have had a dream about a strange track and thought wow that's awesome. It's a pity Jem couldn't have released something like that. If this is complete gibberish to you, PM me, if this makes sense (will it ever ;) ) you'll know what I'm
not talking about. In which case hope you enjoyed the dream :D
You haven't got the biccies in yet :(
Honestly, I've already come to terms with Frost* not being around in the way it was previously. And that's fine, it's all really up to Jem.
But I really do think he's a rather spectacular human and at this point I just hope he continues to make his silly video updates so we can all see into his wonderful world and excellently warped mind... The "Tooling Up" geekcast really made my week when it hit the web. It was almost like sitting down with an old friend.
Hah! This thread is so obsolete now...
Quote from: "Villuccikeys"Hah! This thread is so obsolete now...
Can I quote you on that?
Quote from: "Villuccikeys"Hah! This thread is so obsolete now...
I wouldn't like to say "obsolete".
Maybe just "taking a break of undefined (possibly permanent) duration" :mrgreen:
Quote from: "RacingHippo"Quote from: "Villuccikeys"Hah! This thread is so obsolete now...
I wouldn't like to say "obsolete".
Maybe just "taking a break of undefined (possibly permanent) duration" :mrgreen:
I laughed out loud at both of these. Well played, gentlemen.
They think it's all over....
Well it isn't yet :D
More bloggage today
This tweet really made my day.
Quote@PlanetFrost
Testing testing. 1. 2. This is a test transmission from The Cube. Holy Shengis Khan everybody WE ARE BACK!!! :) ;)
It's really been a long strange trip since Jem turned off the lights on Frost* lo these many months ago but now he's back in sussex and moved into the new Cube. It'll feel more real to me when the first Frost" reports start coming in but still, here wer are.