Frost*ies

Frost* => Friends Of Frost* => Topic started by: RWA on August 10, 2010, 08:42:48 PM

Title: Frost* Forum Collab Song - the tech thread (TTT!)
Post by: RWA on August 10, 2010, 08:42:48 PM
SERIOUS REQUEST:
please use this thread only for the project itself and the members who participate.
The original thread (http://http://www.frost-music.co.uk/frosties/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=2003) is for talk / gossip / sidetracking / etc.


>updated on 12-08-10<

Right! Forget about the SoundCloud thing; it doesn't cut it. I've upgraded my Box.net account and that'll be the place for file handling. Here's a short explanation:

The Frost Forum Collab Song Box: how does it work:

There's a work directory that's only accessible by collaborators:
http://http://www.box.net/files#/files/0/f/48618802/Frost_Forum_Collab_Song_(FFCS)
As you'll notice you won't have acces to it unless you've been added/invited as a collaborator.

To get access please drop me a pm on the Frost Forum containing your e-mail address. I'll then create your own personal folder and invite you to join. This is for collaborators only.

The public version of the FFCS will be accessible by anyone: http://http://www.box.net/ffcs
But it's only to view and download the content.

So in short:
Anyone can listen and download the content on the public page/folder. That means that anything you upload as a collaborator can be listened at and downloaded by anyone. I want to keep that part of the process open. First of all because it's nice for everyone (whether you collab on this or not) to follow what's happening and it's also clear what is used for the song or not. Second because people might wanna jump in later. To be able to do that you have to be able to hear what's been done all ready.

But.... only "approved" collaborators can upload/edit/comment stuff in the FFCS box. This may sound a bit drastic but first of all I want to keep things manageable and second I don't want any bad spirits to mess with the content. Once you get access to the box it means full access as in "moderator/editor". So people who have no business being there can mess up the entire place. To be sure that won't happen I've created the "drop me a pm first" method. Don't worry, any member who requests it will get access and be able to participate. But at least we'll know who he/she is and if he/she is indeed a forum member over here.

That's not short is it?  :mrgreen:
The thing is a project like this is a big thing to handle and it's hard enough as it is to keep track on things. I hope this procedure will make it workable.

--------------------------------
I do have some ideas on an intro using Jem's "Sneeze From Hell" leading into Pedro's section but nothing is set at this moment. If someone has a farking great intro to spare then please do. First thing is to collect pieces that people all ready have and want to contribute to this epic collab. I will then finger out if any of it glues together.

The first 3 months or so are also for people to start working on stuff if they have ideas but nothing on HD yet. Which is the position I'm in myself at the moment. I have some stuff on HD but also have some ideas I still have to record.
Anyway, this is just day 1. So no rush. Just don't wait 6 months to contribute because that might be to late. Let's loosely set the deadline to .... Christmas or so, k?

Any input is appreciated of course!

Some tech specs:
- Files in mp3 are fine the first time around. If I need the wav.file I'll tell you about it.
- It's not forbidden to send wav.files but it's nice to keep the mb's low for now.
- please include tempo (bpm) and time signatures when you upload a file.
- In case of wav.files: 16/24/32 bit is all fine. Just make sure the sample rate is 44,1 kHz.

Go!  :mrgreen:
Title: Re: Frost Forum Collab Song - the tech thread (TTT!)
Post by: Pedro on August 10, 2010, 08:58:51 PM
Thanks Ron.
We don't have many serious threads so let's respect Ron's request. OK?
Title: Re: Frost Forum Collab Song - the tech thread (TTT!)
Post by: E.S. on August 10, 2010, 10:44:14 PM
Before anyone starts sending in ideas, maybe we should decide what format it should be in? Wav is obvious, but 16bits? 24bits? I use 24 myself, but others might use 16, or don't even know anything about such things. We should choose a standard to avoid any problems.

And.. please include exact tempo, either in titles or elsewhere. We have to make sure everything is in sync. Use the snap function in your sequencers.

Maybe include project files too, if some uses the same DAWs.

And it's important that no one take it personal if your part is sacked. This is a bloody cruel world we're in, and we have to be prepared for failure. I know it's hard when you're very passionate about what you have written, but hey.. it can always be used for something else, right?  ;)
Title: Re: Frost Forum Collab Song - the tech thread (TTT!)
Post by: RWA on August 10, 2010, 10:56:04 PM
Quote from: "E.S."
Before anyone starts sending in ideas, maybe we should decide what format it should be in? Wav is obvious, but 16bits? 24bits? I use 24 myself, but others might use 16, or don't even know anything about such things. We should choose a standard to avoid any problems.

And.. please include exact tempo, either in titles or elsewhere. We have to make sure everything is in sync. Use the snap function in your sequencers.

Maybe include project files too, if some uses the same DAWs.

And it's important that no one take it personal if your part is sacked. This is a bloody cruel world we're in, and we have to be prepared for failure. I know it's hard when you're very passionate about what you have written, but hey.. it can always be used for something else, right?  ;)
Good points! Remember, writing is erasing.
Sometimes the most brilliant (or not so brilliant) part just doesn't fit into a song. Happens to me all the time.

Format: 16 bit 44,1 kHz. Higher bit rates (24 or 32) are fine but no other sample rates. So to all you ProTool users: no 48 KhZ!  ;)  btw, it will all  be downgraded to 16 bit 44,1 kHz eventually anyway.

I think we also should limit it to wav.files and possibly midi files. Project files only work if you use the same host and have the same plugins the other person uses.

I'm on Cubase 4 btw. Soon to be upgraded to 5.
Title: Re: Frost Forum Collab Song - the tech thread (TTT!)
Post by: Pedro on August 10, 2010, 11:15:05 PM
*goes back to re-work intro down to 44.1kHz ;)

Things like exact tempo might be interesting. I could say the intro is 130bpm (cos that's what the DAW was set to) but, listening to it, I should probably have had it set to 65bpm.

Tuning could be another issue. The intro is at my Korg's version of +00 cent 440Hz. Close enough I guess.

How should one present separate parts?

A meaningful filename would be a good start (e.g. FrostEndosIntro_130bpm_24bit.wav).

The intro is a single track and represets 30 bars (in my DAW).
There is no lead-in, no metronome count-in - should there be?

If I then have a separate part for the drums that come in at, say, at the beginning of bar 31, should that be a wav with 30 bars of silence at the start? I guess not...but this then needs a way of describing where the cue should be.

Sonar 8.5 Producer here - only using about 10% of it though.

Interesting. Hope these aren't silly questions.
Title: Re: Frost Forum Collab Song - the tech thread (TTT!)
Post by: RWA on August 10, 2010, 11:25:29 PM
No they're not silly questions. Silly questions will be deleted from this thread!  ;)

- 130 bpm instead or 65 is the same for me.
- A bit of silence in the beginning and end is always a good thing.
- Don't include click tracks.I'm used to dragging stuff to the right spot as long as I know the tempo.
- If you have specific ideas at where sudden parts should start or end then include that info.
- The described file name method (e.g. FrostEndosIntro_130bpm_24bit.wav) is very clear indeed so keep it along those lines.

- Start off with full versions. Once a part is done I'll ask for the separate tracks (in wav. format). There's no need to go into all that work while a track is still being build. Specially in this early stage.

Once we get going I'll upload a new version every time using a version number and date. That way progress (or digress.....) can be tracked by anyone. I'll probably will be deleting some older files along the way that are all ready included (or not) in the mix to keep the page manageable.
Title: Re: Frost* Forum Collab Song - the tech thread (TTT!)
Post by: Pedro on August 11, 2010, 12:10:55 AM
Ok, the intro bit (just the EPiano) is now in a wav file on SoundCloud.

Sonar offered me a bewildering range of options but I chose to export @44.1khz 16-bit and write a (Microsoft) Wav file with a sub-rate of 16-bit PCM. (I think there might have been options for a flake and strawberry sauce too).

Phew, need a rest now - this collaborating is hard work!
Might do a bit more tomorrow, maybe the first verse (as in the orginal) but I'll re-do the drums first I think, and maybe the organ...and maybe the bass! ;)
Title: Re: Frost* Forum Collab Song - the tech thread (TTT!)
Post by: E.S. on August 11, 2010, 01:11:26 AM
Oh... and if you have midi, please include it. Some things might be hard to learn by ear (especially if everyone is going to play a billion notes a second). We might have to learn it to keep developing the song, maybe write variations on themes etc.

That's a lovely piano theme. Is the original to be found anywhere? I'd love to hear it.

Unless you meant the original Milliontown?  :oops:
Title: Re: Frost* Forum Collab Song - the tech thread (TTT!)
Post by: rogerg on August 11, 2010, 01:16:21 AM
can we make sure that all the tracks on FFCA are downloadable, so we can play with ins-and-outs, etc.?


Logic 8, btw.
Title: Re: Frost* Forum Collab Song - the tech thread (TTT!)
Post by: Pedro on August 11, 2010, 07:01:07 AM
I went with SoundCloud's defaults, I'll fix it.
I'll get the midi up as well. Might have to wait til tonight though (work doesn't half get in the way!).

The theme is from the original Milliontown, right at the very end....secret song #1 if you like! So the writing credit must be to Jem! :)
Title: Re: Frost* Forum Collab Song - the tech thread (TTT!)
Post by: Pedro on August 11, 2010, 07:41:16 AM
The intro is now downloadable.
The Midi file is available...but SoundCloud (apparently) won't take it.
Where shall we put them?
Title: Re: Frost* Forum Collab Song - the tech thread (TTT!)
Post by: RWA on August 11, 2010, 09:22:13 AM
Quote from: "Pedro"
The intro is now downloadable.
The Midi file is available...but SoundCloud (apparently) won't take it.
Where shall we put them?

Hmm.... midi files seem to be a problem for Soundcloud. It's a place to store music files, not any file format in particular. Perhaps it's an option if anyone needs a midi file he or she sends a pm to the creator and handle it that way. Or we switch to another service. We are still in the beginning of this so if any other upload/download service makes more sense we can go to that.

I have been using Box.net for my file storage also. That one can handle any file format but is limited to 25 mb per file. Which is gonna be a problem for wav.files obviously.

Perhaps we'll have to use both?
Title: Re: Frost* Forum Collab Song - the tech thread (TTT!)
Post by: E.S. on August 11, 2010, 10:24:26 AM
Midi files are tiny, maybe we could just stick to PM and email for that.. or maybe some other filesharing sites.
Title: Re: Frost* Forum Collab Song - the tech thread (TTT!)
Post by: EvilDragon on August 11, 2010, 11:13:03 AM
I suggest using FLAC instead of WAV.  ;)
Title: Re: Frost* Forum Collab Song - the tech thread (TTT!)
Post by: rogerg on August 11, 2010, 02:11:06 PM
I have tons of webspace, so I could host midi files, if you'd like.
Title: Re: Frost* Forum Collab Song - the tech thread (TTT!)
Post by: RWA on August 11, 2010, 02:25:47 PM
Quote from: "rogerg"
I have tons of webspace, so I could host midi files, if you'd like.
Thanks Roger. I have enough of that myself but I prefer to keep everything in one place. I'l look into it some more today. But the pm methode for midi files sounds close enough for me. Not everyone needs it; if you do, contact the maker.

I'll make my first executive decision ( :mrgreen: ) about that before tomorrow.
Title: Re: Frost* Forum Collab Song - the tech thread (TTT!)
Post by: rogerg on August 11, 2010, 02:40:37 PM
cool.  8-)
Title: Re: Frost* Forum Collab Song - the tech thread (TTT!)
Post by: El_Mayonnaise on August 11, 2010, 04:05:43 PM
Quick question: I don't have any sort of DAW software (perhaps I'm not the only one) but I would love to contribute to this. I have a BR-600 multi track recorder though. Would problems arise if I were to export the collab song to it, record my bit and send it all or just my stem back or would this work fine?
Title: Re: Frost* Forum Collab Song - the tech thread (TTT!)
Post by: RWA on August 11, 2010, 05:44:30 PM
Quote from: "El_Mayonnaise"
Quick question: I don't have any sort of DAW software (perhaps I'm not the only one) but I would love to contribute to this. I have a BR-600 multi track recorder though. Would problems arise if I were to export the collab song to it, record my bit and send it all or just my stem back or would this work fine?
It would work fine if you send me the parts separately in the end. The full file will operate as reference to hear how you implemented your part. So yeah, is would work.

Hold your horses on submitting to the Soundcloud account btw. I've looked into Box.net some more and becoming convinced that service is way more suitable for collaborating. It can handle any type of file and multiple users can access one and the same folder. I'll have to upgrade for that but that's just fine since I'm in need for a place like this more and more. Pedro and I will do some testing today/tomorrow to see if it works properly.
Title: Re: Frost* Forum Collab Song - the tech thread (TTT!)
Post by: D S on August 11, 2010, 07:21:42 PM
Quote from: "El_Mayonnaise"
Quick question: I don't have any sort of DAW software (perhaps I'm not the only one) but I would love to contribute to this. I have a BR-600 multi track recorder though. Would problems arise if I were to export the collab song to it, record my bit and send it all or just my stem back or would this work fine?
No, you're not alone! I've been reading this and thinking oh damn, how do I / can I contribute with my Yamaha AW16G  digital multi-track???  :oops:  :evil:  
(Yes, I know - I really should move into the world of PC / Mac recording using Protools or whatever but the portable multitrack suits the way my little musical duo writes and records!).
Title: Re: Frost* Forum Collab Song - the tech thread (TTT!)
Post by: Pedro on August 11, 2010, 08:16:41 PM
Well, hopefully, when there is something with some shape to it and you can hear where you think something could go, I guess you play the downloaded mp3 through one channel, record you shred-tastic frettery on another channel and upload the two files, solo'd guitar and mixed output to the project.
Unless I'm barking again...
Title: Re: Frost* Forum Collab Song - the tech thread (TTT!)
Post by: RWA on August 11, 2010, 08:21:44 PM
Quote from: "D S"
Quote from: "El_Mayonnaise"
Quick question: I don't have any sort of DAW software (perhaps I'm not the only one) but I would love to contribute to this. I have a BR-600 multi track recorder though. Would problems arise if I were to export the collab song to it, record my bit and send it all or just my stem back or would this work fine?
No, you're not alone! I've been reading this and thinking oh damn, how do I / can I contribute with my Yamaha AW16G  digital multi-track???  :oops:  :evil:  
(Yes, I know - I really should move into the world of PC / Mac recording using Protools or whatever but the portable multitrack suits the way my little musical duo writes and records!).
First: any of these devices can export wav.files so they can be used. If it's any other audio format it can always be converted to a WAV. file. Plenty of free programs out there that can do that.

Second: try to fool around with a free or cheap DAW. Export you files from your HD recorded and import them into the program. You would be surpised what you can do with it. You don't even need a pro audio card for that. Try a program as EnergyXT (http://http://www.energy-xt.com/) or  Reaper (http://http://www.reaper.fm/)  . Eventually it's the same as I will do. I use your WAV.files and import them into my DAW (Cubase in my case). It doesn't really matter how it was recorded.
Title: Re: Frost* Forum Collab Song - the tech thread (TTT!)
Post by: RWA on August 12, 2010, 12:38:59 AM
THE FOLLOWING INFO IS ALSO INCLUDED IN THE FIRST POST OF THIS THREAD AS AN UPDATE
 
Right! Forget about the SoundCloud thing; it doesn't cut it. I've upgraded my Box.net account and that'll be the place for file handling. Here's a short explanation:

The Frost Forum Collab Song Box: how does it work:

There's a work directory that's only accessible by collaborators:
http://http://www.box.net/files#/files/0/f/48618802/Frost_Forum_Collab_Song_(FFCS)
As you'll notice you won't have acces to it unless you've been added/invited as a collaborator.

To get access please drop me a pm on the Frost Forum containing your e-mail address. I'll then create your own personal folder and invite you to join. This is for collaborators only.

The public version of the FFCS will be accessible by anyone: http://http://www.box.net/ffcs
But it's only to view and download the content.

So in short:
Anyone can listen and download the content on the public page/folder. That means that anything you upload as a collaborator can be listened at and downloaded by anyone. I want to keep that part of the process open. First of all because it's nice for everyone (whether you collab on this or not) to follow what's happening and it's also clear what is used for the song or not. Second because people might wanna jump in later. To be able to do that you have to be able to hear what's been done all ready.

But.... only "approved" collaborators can upload/edit/comment stuff in the FFCS box. This may sound a bit drastic but first of all I want to keep things manageable and second I don't want any bad spirits to mess with the content. Once you get access to the box it means full access as in "moderator/editor". So people who have no business being there can mess up the entire place. To be sure that won't happen I've created the "drop me a pm first" method. Don't worry, any member who requests it will get access and be able to participate. But at least we'll know who he/she is and if he/she is indeed a forum member over here.

That's not short is it?  :mrgreen:
The thing is a project like this is a big thing to handle and it's hard enough as it is to keep track on things. I hope this procedure will make it workable.

More info will follow soon.

Ron
Title: Re: Frost* Forum Collab Song - the tech thread (TTT!)
Post by: Pedro on August 12, 2010, 01:20:13 AM
Special mention - Thanks for upgrading your account Ron, much appreciated.

So the Electric Piano bit is up.
The 12-string lead-in and the 1st verse drums are going up now.
I'll do the 1st verse organ and bass tomorrow (too knackered now)...and possibly a theremin-like lead-"vocal".

I've been putting them up in Wav 44.1/16 and they begin to get large, working on the basis that each part (har!) starts at time zero.

So it looks a bit like this :-

Electric Piano==============================
------------------------------------------12-String====
--------------------------------------------------Drums================================

All that "------" silence makes for a bigger file :cry: ....but if you take the three bits and load them into something like Audacity as separate audio tracks then they are aligned perfectly.  :)

I should prolly have done it in mp3 (as you say in "the box") but I'll finish what I've started in the same format and then see what happens next.
Title: Re: Frost* Forum Collab Song - the tech thread (TTT!)
Post by: RWA on August 12, 2010, 01:35:51 AM
Excellent Pedro. :)

Before I loose myself in this: I first have to finish the TFK tribute song. It's about 80% done. I'll be working on that tomorrow and Friday. First oppertunity to do anything on the FFCS is next week. The last 2 days were all about finding a method to keep this thing in control.

Anyway, I won't be able to work on this everyday. So if you upload something and won't hear about it for a few days then that's because I haven't got to it yet. I will keep this thing going for sure but there might be a week on or off here and there, k?

For now, just upload whatever you think is suitable. I will put it in one project for the first time next week to see if I can figure out a first set up.
Title: Re: Frost* Forum Collab Song - the tech thread (TTT!)
Post by: rogerg on August 12, 2010, 01:39:35 AM
cool, and many thanks, Ron!!  I'm crazy busy trying to sell a house, and buy another (we made an offer today. gulp), but I want to keep up with what's happening. I have been managing to eke some time out writing music lately, so I plan on keeping that up!
Title: Re: Frost* Forum Collab Song - the tech thread (TTT!)
Post by: gr8gonzo on August 12, 2010, 01:47:07 AM
Yes, many thanks for the upgraded account. Shall we set up a donation box for the rental?
Title: Re: Frost* Forum Collab Song - the tech thread (TTT!)
Post by: RWA on August 12, 2010, 01:53:42 AM
Quote from: "gr8gonzo"
Yes, many thanks for the upgraded account. Shall we set up a donation box for the rental?
No need, thanks.  :)
I needed to do this anyway since I'm getting involved in all sorts of projects at the moment and was looking for a central place anyway. I've been using a free Box.net for about a year now but looking into it these last few days made me realize how powerful this application is. It's perfect for my needs.

Good luck with the house selling/buying Roger! Exciting times, eh?!

Right. It's almost 3:00 a.m. It going to bed!  :?

Ps: this project is GREAT for my post count!  :mrgreen:
Title: Re: Frost* Forum Collab Song - the tech thread (TTT!)
Post by: Pedro on August 12, 2010, 02:17:55 AM
Cool stuff, Ron. I didn't expect the thing to happen this quickly so no complaints from me.

For the time being I shall keep on puting up the parts (har!) that went into my first effort - not because I think the track needs to follow that particularly but because it's all there is to go on right now.  :)  

I can't see the track keeping the slow tempo for much more than one or two verses - then it might segue into something more progular...who knows.

Right, stuff this, I'm off to bed!
Title: Re: Frost* Forum Collab Song - the tech thread (TTT!)
Post by: El_Mayonnaise on August 12, 2010, 05:38:26 PM
Hey guys, is there a way to alter a .wav bit rate after it's been recorded? At the moment anything that comes off my br-600 is 705kbps I believe.

After googling it seems windows vista has stripped sample rate info from files in favour of a star rating, so I'm not really very sure of that either. I'm 78.54% certain its 44.1khz though...

I know mp3's aren't that much of a hassle to deal with but this is a learning process for me too.
Title: Re: Frost* Forum Collab Song - the tech thread (TTT!)
Post by: E.S. on August 12, 2010, 05:49:26 PM
Yes, it can be altered, but of course the quality won't become better. It will just become compatible with a 16bit project. You'll need some kind of wave editor for that, maybe like Audacity- It's free. Haven't tried it myself, but I've heard it's good.

http://audacity.sourceforge.net/ (http://audacity.sourceforge.net/)
Title: Re: Frost* Forum Collab Song - the tech thread (TTT!)
Post by: El_Mayonnaise on August 12, 2010, 06:29:03 PM
Oh now see this is my level of sound engineering knowledge. I have audacity already but never realised it did stuff like that. I only use about 5% of it for arranging tracks and then converting to mp3  :lol:
Title: Re: Frost* Forum Collab Song - the tech thread (TTT!)
Post by: gr8gonzo on August 12, 2010, 07:59:58 PM
Same here. I've used Audacity on a couple of projects and have been pleased with it, but haven't really scratched the surface of what it can do.
Title: Re: Frost* Forum Collab Song - the tech thread (TTT!)
Post by: EvilDragon on August 12, 2010, 08:16:48 PM
Nobody commented anything about my suggestion about using FLAC instead of WAV? It's lossles and all that...
Title: Re: Frost* Forum Collab Song - the tech thread (TTT!)
Post by: E.S. on August 12, 2010, 08:22:00 PM
My only question is why? Are we sure every DAW (or hardware recording unit) is compatible with FLAC?
Killer format though.
Title: Re: Frost* Forum Collab Song - the tech thread (TTT!)
Post by: gr8gonzo on August 12, 2010, 09:14:49 PM
Shame we can't preview WAV files without downloading. They're little monsters. 19MB for a wee smattering of drums.
Title: Re: Frost* Forum Collab Song - the tech thread (TTT!)
Post by: EvilDragon on August 12, 2010, 09:43:33 PM
Well, Reaper works with FLAC as if it were WAV... And it's small so everyone can download it and use within the trial time. And even after that, as it's uncrippled.

And, even so, your DAW doesn't have to support FLAC. There are audio converters out there (myself uses AIMP audio player, it comes with audio converter as well). FLAC transforms to WAV 1:1. So you can download the FLACs, convert to WAV, work in your DAW, export to WAV, convert to FLAC, upload. A bit convoluted, but you do end up with a lot smaller file for upload/download.
Title: Re: Frost* Forum Collab Song - the tech thread (TTT!)
Post by: El_Mayonnaise on August 12, 2010, 10:09:21 PM
FLAC's that stuff they use to throw missiles of course isn't it?  ;)

Well I had a go at recording some drums for this fine project and I'm quite pleased at what I did. I basically took Pedro's 12 string riff and repeated it over and over so thats what I had in mind at the time. It sounds quite uninteresting with just drums so I've uploaded what I was playing along to as well.

Is there an easier way than recording minutes of silence to make it all fall into place? Can someone with a DAW drag everything into the right place instead?
Title: Re: Frost* Forum Collab Song - the tech thread (TTT!)
Post by: E.S. on August 12, 2010, 11:01:37 PM
Yes, in DAW-land, there's a function called "snap", at least it's called that in Cubase. Then you just need a bar of silence before your part starts (unless you can play so tight you're 100% dead on). Then it can be dragged into place without having to mess around to find the exact timing manually.
But that only works if the bar of silence matches the tempo of the project, of course.
Title: Re: Frost* Forum Collab Song - the tech thread (TTT!)
Post by: RWA on August 13, 2010, 12:00:57 AM
Quote from: "gr8gonzo"
Shame we can't preview WAV files without downloading. They're little monsters. 19MB for a wee smattering of drums.
One more reason to work in mp3 format as long as we're building this thing.
Just make sure they are 320 kbps (the highest quality)

1 - mp3's can be previewed on box.net before you decide to download them
2 - wav.files are the biggest format there is. I only need them when parts are truly done and ready to be mixed.

So please, don't bother to much about WAV.files at this stage. And therefore, don't upload to many WAV.files also.
Title: Re: Frost* Forum Collab Song - the tech thread (TTT!)
Post by: Pedro on August 13, 2010, 12:12:20 AM
Yeah, I'll be putting mp3s up from now on.
Title: Re: Frost* Forum Collab Song - the tech thread (TTT!)
Post by: RWA on August 13, 2010, 12:16:43 AM
Quote from: "El_Mayonnaise"
Is there an easier way than recording minutes of silence to make it all fall into place? Can someone with a DAW drag everything into the right place instead?

I'm used to dragging stuff into place as long as I know where it is supposed to go.
My experience is the easiest way to do it this is like this:

- deliver the separate parts without all the dead space (so export them between the locators in your daw)
- also upload a full mp3 so I can hear where the parts should go.

I work like this all the time and a so called reference mp3 with the full song works 10 times faster then a full page of text trying to explain what you mend to do.

And once again, keep it to mp3 at this stage. It's all scratch book work we're doing at the moment.  :)
Title: Re: Frost* Forum Collab Song - the tech thread (TTT!)
Post by: RWA on August 13, 2010, 12:20:17 AM
Quote from: "EvilDragon"
Well, Reaper works with FLAC as if it were WAV... And it's small so everyone can download it and use within the trial time. And even after that, as it's uncrippled.

And, even so, your DAW doesn't have to support FLAC. There are audio converters out there (myself uses AIMP audio player, it comes with audio converter as well). FLAC transforms to WAV 1:1. So you can download the FLACs, convert to WAV, work in your DAW, export to WAV, convert to FLAC, upload. A bit convoluted, but you do end up with a lot smaller file for upload/download.

I understand what you mean but that procedure only adds more work. I'll have to convert every file! No thanks.  ;)
mp3 is our friend. WAV.files (packed with ZIP or WIRAR) are for later concern.

Let's make it a general rule to use mp3 unless I ask for WAV specifically, k?
Title: Re: Frost* Forum Collab Song - the tech thread (TTT!)
Post by: RWA on August 13, 2010, 12:22:40 AM
Did I all ready mention anything about mp3 in here?!  :P
Title: Re: Frost* Forum Collab Song - the tech thread (TTT!)
Post by: Pedro on August 13, 2010, 01:23:14 AM
Ok, I'm just reacting to it as things change....all part of the fun.
Oddly, Sonar doesn't export mp3 without some add-on wotsit but I'll convert my wavs to mp3-320 somehow (have to check how to do that in Audacity) and put them up without the leading silence.

I started sorting the organ part (double har!) but I'm too shattered to do any more tonight (curse this feeble carbon-based husk and its dependence on sleep!) so I'll do it tomorrow.
Title: Re: Frost* Forum Collab Song - the tech thread (TTT!)
Post by: EvilDragon on August 13, 2010, 01:42:44 AM
How about recording to WAV but converting for upload. Then you can always send the original WAVs for the final mix. Or uploading 128k MP3 for preview and adding links for WAV/FLAC of the same file for "real" download and REAL mixing.

Converting these files is not really a chore, takes a minute or two. Can't even make tea in that time!

Honestly, MP3s are the plague. Just kills high freq content. FLAC for the win. ;)
Title: Re: Frost* Forum Collab Song - the tech thread (TTT!)
Post by: RWA on August 13, 2010, 09:58:01 AM
Quote from: "EvilDragon"
How about recording to WAV but converting for upload. Then you can always send the original WAVs for the final mix. Or uploading 128k MP3 for preview and adding links for WAV/FLAC of the same file for "real" download and REAL mixing.

Converting these files is not really a chore, takes a minute or two. Can't even make tea in that time!

Honestly, MP3s are the plague. Just kills high freq content. FLAC for the win. ;)
You just don't seem to get it.... it seems. Yes, of course you record in WAV format. Just make sure the upload is in mp3. For the time being that is. It's just for reference.

EXAMPLE:
Say I'm recording a guitar part on top of Pedro's song. I'll record my guitar part in WAV format but I don't need a full size WAV version of Pedro's song to do the recording. I only need an mp3 to play along with. Once everything needs to be brought together I'll ask Pedro for the (separate) WAV files of his song for final mixing. The mp3 file I used as a reference will then be deleted.

BTW: FLAC doesn't go well with FFCS!  ;)
Title: Re: Frost* Forum Collab Song - the tech thread (TTT!)
Post by: EvilDragon on August 13, 2010, 12:52:52 PM
Okokok, I get it. :D
Title: Re: Frost* Forum Collab Song - the tech thread (TTT!)
Post by: El_Mayonnaise on August 13, 2010, 12:56:08 PM
Quote from: "Pedro"

I started sorting the organ part (double har!) but I'm too shattered to do any more tonight (curse this feeble carbon-based husk and its dependence on sleep!) so I'll do it tomorrow.

You said that yesterday! :P

Does it follow the same motif as your 12 string guitar part? As thats what I had in mind when I recorded some drums (blimey its hard to make drums go anywhere without any melody) If not I'll have a rethink ;)
Title: Re: Frost* Forum Collab Song - the tech thread (TTT!)
Post by: Pedro on August 13, 2010, 01:35:12 PM
This, http://soundclick.com/share?songid=9223496 (http://soundclick.com/share?songid=9223496) , is where it is currently heading but only because that's where it was going and few people said they liked it. So the organ and bass parts will be similar to verse #1 in there.

However, it doesn't have to stay going that way by any stretch and I think that if we are going to tease-out any of the fine playing skills that others on here have clearly got it will need a bit of variety later on with a tempo/style change or two.

With the original, I set out to make it connect with the end bit of Milliontown so the theme carried on but it's not vital to keep it going for long.

I'd love for this to grow into a kind of "quilt" project where we manage to join-up different ideas into a piece that works perhaps in a way similar to Transatlantic's The Whirlwind (I'm on about the structure, I am not implying anything about the quality or duration!) - I like music where themes return in variations but that might be just me.  ;)  

I will upload my backing for verse #1 in the next 12 hours....if I can just stay awake.... :)
Title: Re: Frost* Forum Collab Song - the tech thread (TTT!)
Post by: Pedro on August 13, 2010, 11:49:25 PM
Hi again,

OK, I've moved all the huge wavs to a separate folder and uploaded mp3 versions of all my parts (har!).
The quality is good enough for playing around with.

Also, all of the parts (har!) now have just 1-bar of silent count-in. The description of each clip gives a cue hint in terms of bar number where the clip should start (i.e. where the silent 1-bar count-in should start.
There's also a composite mp3 of the parts (har!) arranged as I envisaged them going together.

If anyone wants a version without a particular part (e.g. without the bass) then I can do one if you don't have the set-up to align things by bars.

So we are "up-to-date" with the stuff I did before.
What happens next is up for grabs.

I might put up a melody line to go over the 1st verse and then ponder a way to nicely switch-up into something a bit more interesting, with a slightly more proggy time sig and, hopefully some good spaces for a few solos to be traded.

Onwards! :)
Title: Re: Frost* Forum Collab Song - the tech thread (TTT!)
Post by: johninblack on August 14, 2010, 12:05:02 AM
Well, I've decided that I AM going to do some bass at some point. It might be crap but I'm gonna do it anyway 8-)
Title: Re: Frost* Forum Collab Song - the tech thread (TTT!)
Post by: RWA on August 14, 2010, 12:25:17 AM
Hooray I say to all the action!  :mrgreen:

Had a great recording/arranging day with my mate today working on the TFK cover tune. I'll do the bulk of the mixing next Monday and then I'll fire up a FFCS project in Cubase to bring the first contributions together.

So far:
song written by Pedro
Song arranged by Pedro
All instruments by Pedro
©Pedro_2010!  ;)
Title: Re: Frost* Forum Collab Song - the tech thread (TTT!)
Post by: Pedro on August 14, 2010, 12:39:49 AM
Yay! Go for it JIB - looking forward to it all!

I've just put up an additonal part (har!) which is a silly theremin/musical-saw rendition of the melody line for the 1st verse.
There's also an assembly of the whole thing with the theremin.

We could go for another verse but I'm wondering if the next challenge is a bridge/segue/ref's-whistle-and-screech-of-brakes into something a bit more Frost*ie and up-beat.... :?

Time to step back for a bit....(that's not a reaction to Ron's comment - and Jem wrote the tune!)....bring on the collaborators! :)
Title: Re: Frost* Forum Collab Song - the tech thread (TTT!)
Post by: E.S. on August 14, 2010, 04:57:31 AM
Yo!

I got an idea. Since it starts off with a variation of the Mtown ending.. then why not continue the with another Frost theme? I have recorded a little segue/bridge with a theme from Snowman. I have uploaded it by itself, plus one version glued together with Pedro's intro. The fully assembled one with theremin and all. What do ya think? Obviously we shouldn't just use Frost songs, but I think it fits.
It's just an idea, first take and nothing polished at all. I'm not a bass player, but I did actually play bass on it.  :o
I don't have MIDI for the piano, it was just recorded as audio from the Fantom.

Oh, btw Pedro. When I loaded your intro into Cubase, it's not in sync. I used a tempo of 130bpm. I had to move it a bit to get perfect timing.

My versions now have 2 bars of silence in the beginning.

Oh, and if you hear some noise when you play it really loud, it's my organ plugin making noise. I haven't exported to audio and removed the rotor noise from it. Cool, but pretty useless feature.  :mrgreen:
Title: Re: Frost* Forum Collab Song - the tech thread (TTT!)
Post by: gr8gonzo on August 14, 2010, 05:45:09 AM
I like it. The Snowman piece seemed to fit very well. It would be cool to touch on each of the tracks from the album in addition to adding original parts (har!).
Title: Re: Frost* Forum Collab Song - the tech thread (TTT!)
Post by: Pedro on August 14, 2010, 07:39:31 AM
OMG, that's gorgeous E.S.! :)
I wouldn't have any problem with the pursuit of a medley-style mash-up - I'm sure there's a bunch of ways to work-in other bits - I can already imagine 2 or 3 ways things might go from this but, like the Limericks, the excitement is in the thing NOT going the way you expect. ;)

@E.S.: re: sync problem. When you say my intro, do you mean just the EP part(har!) mp3 or the whole assembly?
Also, did the two bars is silence result from the sync probs or is that just a personal choice?

Note to self: Re-do assembly with the theremin dialled back a notch - too loud man, 'slike piercing.  :o
Title: Re: Frost* Forum Collab Song - the tech thread (TTT!)
Post by: El_Mayonnaise on August 14, 2010, 11:16:02 AM
You know it has to be the hyperventilate crazy double bass and scaling the synth section next  :D

I'd like to ask a favour if I may, that drum machines be incorporated but also that if human drumming is wanted, then a track without drums on it be uploaded too? It wouldn't be too hard I'm sure....its just....drummers can feel so left out... :(
Title: Re: Frost* Forum Collab Song - the tech thread (TTT!)
Post by: E.S. on August 14, 2010, 11:19:46 AM
I meant the full track. I haven't downloaded any individual tracks yet.

And two bars is just because I needed that time to hit record, turn around and play the keys. Then I just bounced the whole thing. One bar is probably enough. And yeah, I had to move everything a bit to the right to get it in sync.

Oh, and thanks.  :)
In my opinion, it would be great with some parts that doesn't come from the Frost* albums, but hey... we'll see where it goes from here.  :mrgreen:

I just hope it doesn't stay this minimalistic all the way. Something maximum something... Rock, I believe.  :D


@El_Mayonnaise: Yeah, I agree. I'll upload my thingy without drums. Just gotta take care of "dayjob music" first.
Title: Re: Frost* Forum Collab Song - the tech thread (TTT!)
Post by: Pedro on August 14, 2010, 12:18:55 PM
@E.S. Curious, I'll have a look.

@El_Mayo: I can easily do a drum-less version.
Would you like a click-track?
Or you could just put the other bits together.

@Everyone: just because I have put up some parts(har!) that make it look like a complete finished thing, any or all of the parts are replaceable.
So, if you would like to or you don't find composing easy (hell, I stole the tune from Jem!) PLEASE feel free to record some real drums, real bass, real comb and paper, whatever and put it up. The idea is to get people joining in, I don't want people to not touch it....that's not the point. :)
Title: Re: Frost* Forum Collab Song - the tech thread (TTT!)
Post by: E.S. on August 14, 2010, 12:41:07 PM
Oh, btw.. does that epiano come from a Triton, by any chance?
Title: Re: Frost* Forum Collab Song - the tech thread (TTT!)
Post by: Pedro on August 14, 2010, 01:16:31 PM
Yep. I was going to use one from Omnisphere but it had a crazy stereo auto-pan thing going on (which I could have killed but the Triton one felt warmer.

BTW the sync problem you spotted appeared to happen when I converted from WAV to mp3 in Audacity.
I just put up a fresh, better-synced assembly (with a slightly dialled-back Theremin). Thanks for pointing it out.
Title: Re: Frost* Forum Collab Song - the tech thread (TTT!)
Post by: E.S. on August 14, 2010, 01:36:17 PM
I want Omnisphere too! Maybe it's time to get it. Beautiful thingy.

That's strange indeed. I've never encountered that problem before. But then again, I've never tried Audacity.
Title: Re: Frost* Forum Collab Song - the tech thread (TTT!)
Post by: Pedro on August 14, 2010, 01:39:47 PM
LOL I'm not ruling out pilot error...I do some of my most obscure bodging while asleep at the mouse.  ;)
Title: Re: Frost* Forum Collab Song - the tech thread (TTT!)
Post by: gr8gonzo on August 14, 2010, 02:02:09 PM
It's sounding good, guys. I was going to suggest bringing the theramin down a bit. Good call. Where to go from here? Keep it mellow a bit longer or transition to something heavier in 7/8? Hmmm.
Title: Re: Frost* Forum Collab Song - the tech thread (TTT!)
Post by: gr8gonzo on August 14, 2010, 02:08:48 PM
Quote from: "Pedro"
I don't want people to not touch it
(har!)

I like the idea of revisiting the start of piece (the end of Mtown thing), but do variations. Sort of like Marillion's "Marbles" is in 4 parts (har!) spread over the album.
Title: Re: Frost* Forum Collab Song - the tech thread (TTT!)
Post by: Pedro on August 14, 2010, 02:32:21 PM
Album? Cool, wasn't expecting it to get long but, hey, why not? ;)
The Frost*wind? :)
Title: Re: Frost* Forum Collab Song - the tech thread (TTT!)
Post by: rogerg on August 14, 2010, 02:48:39 PM
Quote from: "Pedro"
The Frost*wind? :)


don't break it!
Title: Re: Frost* Forum Collab Song - the tech thread (TTT!)
Post by: El_Mayonnaise on August 14, 2010, 04:43:49 PM
Quote from: "Pedro"
@El_Mayo: I can easily do a drum-less version.
Would you like a click-track?
Or you could just put the other bits together.

As long as everythings in place already, a click track shouldn't really be needed too much. Problems may arise if the time signatures start changing all over the place though so if it gets to that then yes click track would be nice  :)

I'd love to get some of the more synthy sounds out of my yamaha dtxpress and korg micro x so if theres any call for it I'll be all over it like a rash  :twisted:
Title: Re: Frost* Forum Collab Song - the tech thread (TTT!)
Post by: El_Mayonnaise on August 16, 2010, 01:51:46 PM
Uploaded some extended drums to Pedro's bit and even possibly the start of a second verse. I tried to get E.S.'s contribution involved but it was just too fiddly for me so someone with the knowhow and ability can arrange it all.

Hopefully we can move onto some rock maximum rock with this next verse/section.
Title: Re: Frost* Forum Collab Song - the tech thread (TTT!)
Post by: Bokkie on August 16, 2010, 06:37:25 PM
great initiative RWA!
I think this is the most fastest growing thread i ever seen!
Title: Re: Frost* Forum Collab Song - the tech thread (TTT!)
Post by: Pedro on August 17, 2010, 02:23:02 AM
Hi,
Interesting to hear some other ideas - keep 'em coming.
I don't really know what to expect as a next step but, loosely comparing this experience with what apparently happened for The Whirlwind, I guess we need a whole bunch of bits (demos) and ideas on the table so that maybe a structure emerges(?).

In response to the call for something a little more "rocky", I've just put up another "doodle" that still contains the same "theme" as Verse #1 but the aim was to try to lay down a seed bed for soloists to widdle into...(erm, har?).
It nips along at 150bpm so a little less sedate(d) than the chilled-out intro etc.

This link should take you to it :- http://http://www.box.net/shared/0gta3g0qq3

So, inside there is :-
1) the end of the electric piano intro again (just there to give a context - doesn't have to be)
2) a preposterous floor tom lead-in
3) 8 bars of "scene-setting" over which there could be a Mitchell-like "rinse" (hey, axe-men, this means you!)
4) 15 bars of rhythm guitar(ish), bass and drums banging out (rather badly) the backing for same melody as verse 1.
5) The last 8 bars is a random sequence that doesn't really go anywhere deliberate and is a bit generic really. :?

It's not meant to be "good" and I guess it really could be more "Frost*ie" but it's just a WIP idea for maybe the closing or penultimate section of the piece(?)....or maybe the cutting room floor!

If no-one does anything with it that's not a problem - it's just out there in case it's of interest...or in case Fadius P. Shredworthy is waiting for a chance to join in. :)
Title: Re: Frost* Forum Collab Song - the tech thread (TTT!)
Post by: gr8gonzo on August 17, 2010, 03:59:12 AM
Firstly, you did a great job with it and I have much respect for you and your work. I'm just not sold on those chords being the basis for a significant portion of the song. It's almost too straight forward, I think. I love opening with the end of Mtown, but it feels a little too basic to make much use of it beyond the beginning. Like you said, though, best to put everything out there and see what works. It could very well be that that section works perfectly.
Title: Re: Frost* Forum Collab Song - the tech thread (TTT!)
Post by: Pedro on August 17, 2010, 07:43:28 AM
No worries, either way. :)

I guess we are really just brainstorming (or drizzling) and so everything is just a post-it note on the whiteboard right now.
Putting up a clip doesn't mean any more than that....does it?

Which is an interesting and important point on the process really.

Together, we could probably put up a different idea every few days for the foreseeable. Some might inspire others to add layers, some won't.

How do we decide the structure of the piece and what's "in" and what's "out"?

My worry would be that someone invests time in trying to add layers to a part (har!) that's not going to be "in". I'm deffo posting stuff on the basis that it is disposable, I hope everyone else understands that. :)

How do we move forward without a roadmap?

How can people tell which bits are worth spending their own time on yet?

@Ron: any clues?
Title: Re: Frost* Forum Collab Song - the tech thread (TTT!)
Post by: RWA on August 17, 2010, 10:06:53 AM
Quote from: "Pedro"
No worries, either way. :)

I guess we are really just brainstorming (or drizzling) and so everything is just a post-it note on the whiteboard right now.
Putting up a clip doesn't mean any more than that....does it? Which is an interesting and important point on the process really.
Yes, that's the idea. Of course it's impossible for everything to fit but I'll do my best.

Quote
How do we decide the structure of the piece and what's "in" and what's "out"? My worry would be that someone invests time in trying to add layers to a part (har!) that's not going to be "in". I'm deffo posting stuff on the basis that it is disposable, I hope everyone else understands that. :)
First of all: writing is erasing! One can put lots of hours into something to find out it either doesn't work or your collaborators/band mates don't like it. It's a substantiation part of the game. I delete parts all the time that end up being unsuitable or just to much.

Second: I'm more then willing to act as a producer but that doesn't mean I'm the dictator. If someone uploads a better part then it most probably will be used. But someone DOES need to be the producer. Working with 1 collaborator can be hard enough as it is; working with 7 (and counting) is disaster if no one takes the lead.

But... this means everyone has to accept my role in this.

Third: I think we should start handing out tasks later in the game. Like if you need a drum part for you part, decide who you want it to do and assign it to that person (after checking first obviously). Then everyone should respect that decision for the time being. That way you'll prevent 3 drummers working on the same part.

I think a dedicated web.doc over at box.net will be perfect for that. I'll set something up for that but anyone can access and edit it. We'll use it as a time table/ agenda/ checklist. I've all ready started using that with my mate Maarten on the TFK song and it works very well.
Quote
How do we move forward without a roadmap?
How can people tell which bits are worth spending their own time on yet?

@Ron: any clues?
I guess the roadmap wil be "the song so far" that I'll be updating on a regular basis. Tomorrow I'll download all the content so far to see what we've got and set up a first version. I'll then (try) do decide what stays and what not.

I'll try to do an overall update like this once a week or so.

But remember the song is still very early stage. We have a section but it's far to early to say where this section will go. It might end up being the intro but it might as well be section 4 or so. Which is the nice thing and also a huge benefit of writing a prog epic; you can shamelessly glue parts together as long as the transition makes sense. And if you reprise a section the illusion is complete!  :mrgreen:

I might not even play anything on this project but act as a producer only. We'll see. But for now: upload anything that you thing is worth it. It might just end up in the FFCS!  :)
Title: Re: Frost* Forum Collab Song - the tech thread (TTT!)
Post by: El_Mayonnaise on August 17, 2010, 10:35:53 AM
Now this idea of creating completely random demos is something new to me.

I'm guessing we can expect some reallly strange parts (har!) to make an appearance (har!)

Might have a route around see if I can find anything in my documents as I'll be away from my instruments for a few days :(
Title: Re: Frost* Forum Collab Song - the tech thread (TTT!)
Post by: Pedro on August 17, 2010, 01:34:46 PM
I'm *more* than happy for you, Ron, to take charge of the big scissors (thank you) and, as has been said, I wouldn't put anything into this project that I would fight to protect, it is all probably both brilliant and crap and can be used or abused as you see fit.
This has inspired me to revisit some of my own stuff too, so I can stop "muddying the waters" by throwing more random bits in for a while but I stand ready to jump back in any time. :)
Title: Re: Frost* Forum Collab Song - the tech thread (TTT!)
Post by: gr8gonzo on August 17, 2010, 01:59:17 PM
I'm absolutely fine with Ron handling the arrangement and there are no hard feelings what so ever if anything I submit doesn't make the cut. As a screenwriter, I know not to get too attached to anything.

Ron, thanks for pointing out that the parts (har!) that have been put up so far may be used at any point and aren't necessarily the beginning. I had been listening in a linear fashion and not looking at the big picture. Perhaps "Mosaic" would make a good working title?

"Come on, everybody! We've got quiltin' to do!"
Title: Re: Frost* Forum Collab Song - the tech thread (TTT!)
Post by: E.S. on August 17, 2010, 11:32:16 PM
I'm cool with it. Someone has to make the call, otherwise it will never be finished.
Title: Re: Frost* Forum Collab Song - the tech thread (TTT!)
Post by: RWA on August 18, 2010, 08:33:26 PM
Hey ho! Version 1 is uploaded. --> http://http://www.box.net/ffcs/1/48621432/490665850

So what did I do?

Well, I downloaded all the parts available (both individual parts as full mp3ís) and lined them up so theyíre all in sync. Then I took out as much of the full mp3ís as possible in case I also had the individual version (Pedro!).

First problem that occured are the files by El_Mayonnaise. The drums are not in sync. Sometimes to fast sometimes to slow. So he first has to take a look at that. I dropped an image file in you folder about this Richard.
To still be able to work out some ideas I played the drums myself for this part.

The arrangment for now:
e-piano intro is the same
12 string part is repeated (*)
Full organ/bass/theremin section is used for about 75 %. I took a repeated section out.
BecauseÖ. ES piano part is repeated also (*)

The song does lead into Pedroís rock section. I like it. It has a Frost*/SB vibe to it.
I did take out the middle part with the (to) obvious rock chords but the start and end stay the same.

Take a look at the image to get an idea --> http://http://www.box.net/ffcs/1/48621432/490665078

(*) The entire intro section is perfect for vocals and the * parts are repeated because theyíre great and build nicely. It gives a vocalist some room to do his/her thing.

Drums: I did play everything myself for now. Doesnít mean it stays that way but it gives me something to work with. At this time you hear double drum parts on ES and Pedro's rock section because those files all ready had (backing) drums. So it's a bit busy for now. Sounds a bit like Phil and Chester!  ;)
The individual drum part is my RWA folder if you need it.

Request to ES:
please upload you piano and bass part as an individual file. Preferbly of the new extented lenght as in FFCS version 1
Request to Pedro:
Please upload the individual parts for the ďrockĒ section.

General request 1:
Put your name in every file you upload. You can lose the "FFCS" in the file name. It's pretty obvious what song it's for. But it is handy for me to be able to see which file is who's. Thanks!  :)

General request 2:
Every folder has your name in it. Could everyone please fill in over there what they want to do? So which instrument(s) and / or vocals? Gives me an overview of what we have in this "band".
Title: Re: Frost* Forum Collab Song - the tech thread (TTT!)
Post by: gr8gonzo on August 18, 2010, 09:26:27 PM
Nice work, Ron! Can't wait to hear some real electric guitar on that heavier section.
Title: Re: Frost* Forum Collab Song - the tech thread (TTT!)
Post by: Pedro on August 18, 2010, 10:39:38 PM
It's alive!! :)
Yes, some real guitar would be great instead of me jabbing keys in Omnisphere's power chords.  ;)

Individual parts (har!) in skinny mp3s or full-fat WAV?
Title: Re: Frost* Forum Collab Song - the tech thread (TTT!)
Post by: flamadiddle on August 18, 2010, 10:58:08 PM
Yeah, it'd be nice to have a crack at that guitar part.  Just need to get my gear set up.  Had a decent idea for the next section but don't have any midi stuff set up at the moment.  Will sort it tomorrow though.
Title: Re: Frost* Forum Collab Song - the tech thread (TTT!)
Post by: RWA on August 19, 2010, 04:56:52 AM
Quote from: "Pedro"
It's alive!! :)
Yes, some real guitar would be great instead of me jabbing keys in Omnisphere's power chords.  ;)

Individual parts (har!) in skinny mp3s or full-fat WAV?
Full WAV please. Oh, and the same goes for the 1st section. Make sure the e-piano and 12-string have the new (extended) lenght, k?

Any guitarists around here for the rock section?
And about my drums; for all I care they're just temporary, k?
Title: Re: Frost* Forum Collab Song - the tech thread (TTT!)
Post by: Pedro on August 19, 2010, 07:21:38 AM
Aye-aye Cap'n. Will do that tonight.
When extending the parts (double entendr-har!) I'll adjust to ease the transitions too. :)
Title: Re: Frost* Forum Collab Song - the tech thread (TTT!)
Post by: RWA on August 19, 2010, 09:27:41 AM
Quote from: "Pedro"
Aye-aye Cap'n. Will do that tonight.
When extending the parts (double entendr-har!) I'll adjust to ease the transitions too. :)
You might wanna try continueing the 12 string during the organ/theremin section also. Playing the chords of that section that is. As a 2nd (30% extra ++ XXXL)option. Might sound nice.  :)
Title: Re: Frost* Forum Collab Song - the tech thread (TTT!)
Post by: E.S. on August 19, 2010, 10:43:40 AM
I bought a guitar yesterday, so now I can do that too. (after practicing in my bedroom for another 10 years.)  :lol:

Seriously though, I have some ideas for totally different sections, I just gotta get this crazy week of music done. After the show on saturday I can participate a bit. Looking forward to it.
Title: Re: Frost* Forum Collab Song - the tech thread (TTT!)
Post by: E.S. on August 19, 2010, 10:46:09 AM
Quote from: "RWA"
Request to ES:
please upload you piano and bass part as an individual file. Preferbly of the new extented lenght as in FFCS version 1.
Will do soon, I promise.
Title: Re: Frost* Forum Collab Song - the tech thread (TTT!)
Post by: RWA on August 19, 2010, 03:07:21 PM
Quote from: "E.S."
Quote from: "RWA"
Request to ES:
please upload you piano and bass part as an individual file. Preferbly of the new extented lenght as in FFCS version 1.
Will do soon, I promise.
Great. make that WAV files as well. I see no reason why these parts would change in the future.

I can do guitars of course but it's nice to let others step in as well. So I hold my horses for now. Which in my case would be a dog and 3 cats but all the same!

I'll use the current (key based) bass parts for now. Even though they sound find to me. But if any bass player wants to step in you're more then welcome.

And keep bringing up new sections! We've only just started! This will become a 100+ page thread I reckon!  :mrgreen:
Title: Re: Frost* Forum Collab Song - the tech thread (TTT!)
Post by: El_Mayonnaise on August 19, 2010, 05:05:06 PM
Hmm, no idea what happened with the drum syncing  :?

If you could drop a drumless version of the song so far into my folder ron, I can try recording again.

Sorry about that lads ad lasses.
Title: Re: Frost* Forum Collab Song - the tech thread (TTT!)
Post by: Drarok on August 19, 2010, 06:46:45 PM
Quote from: "RWA"
Any guitarists around here for the rock section?
And about my drums; for all I care they're just temporary, k?
Hello, hello? I'm a guitarist/drummer/keyboard botherer with a DAW featuring time-stretching and audio quantising. What can I help you with? :mrgreen:
Title: Re: Frost* Forum Collab Song - the tech thread (TTT!)
Post by: flamadiddle on August 19, 2010, 07:00:43 PM
I've got some acute RSI as of Tuesday evening, so won't be able to contribute immediately (guitar, btw).  Will see how I'm doing in a few days.
Title: Re: Frost* Forum Collab Song - the tech thread (TTT!)
Post by: RWA on August 19, 2010, 07:27:24 PM
Quote from: "El_Mayonnaise"
Hmm, no idea what happened with the drum syncing  :?

If you could drop a drumless version of the song so far into my folder ron, I can try recording again.

Sorry about that lads ad lasses.
No problem. Will have to wait till tomorrow though. Slightly busy at the moment.  :)
Title: Re: Frost* Forum Collab Song - the tech thread (TTT!)
Post by: Drarok on August 19, 2010, 08:20:02 PM
Just popping out for a wee bit, then I'm gonna delve into all these files I suddenly have access to.

I'm a little disappointed with box.net, coming over from Dropbox and finding no free desktop sync client from the grand-daddies of cloud storage was rather surprising! I've downloaded the lot as a ZIP file so I don't have to mess about waiting for individual files to download.
Title: Re: Frost* Forum Collab Song - the tech thread (TTT!)
Post by: Pedro on August 19, 2010, 11:10:26 PM
Pedro Task List :-

1) Post extended EPiano Intro as WAV DONE
2) Post extended 12-String Lead-in as WAV DONE
3) Post guitar for "rawk" section NEXT
4) Post bass for "rawk" section NEXT
5) Consider 12-String backing for Theremin section
6) Ponder possible future sections
...anything missing?

@RWA: Please let me know if my adaptations of the extended EP and 12-String parts (har!) "work" ok.
Title: Re: Frost* Forum Collab Song - the tech thread (TTT!)
Post by: Drarok on August 19, 2010, 11:15:32 PM
I've just added a pair of MP3s to the Box, one with just my guitar, the other with me (rather loudly) over the top of the "so far" MP3.
I'm just mirroring the MIDI powerchords at the minute, and there's one really obvious join between takes I need to fix if you want to use my bit at all. :)

Mirrored here in case other folks can't access the Box:
My guitar and the rest (http://http://www.drarok.com/frost/files/Frost%20Forum%20Collab%20Song/Drarok%20-%20Rock%20Section%20from%20bar%2080%20%28I%20think%29.mp3)
Guitar Only (http://http://www.drarok.com/frost/files/Frost%20Forum%20Collab%20Song/Drarok%20-%20Rock%20Section%20From%20bar%2080%20%28I%20think%29%20-%20Guitar%20Only.mp3)
Title: Re: Frost* Forum Collab Song - the tech thread (TTT!)
Post by: Pedro on August 19, 2010, 11:28:09 PM
Nice work, sir.  :)

I'm loving this phase of things. I not really experienced the thrill of dabbing a few keys until I think something sounds ok, sending it off (to "pimp-my-riff.com") and getting it back with good drums and real guitar on it.  :)
I just sat here grinning like an idiot (that bit's normal, sadly) listening to that mix and realising I was tapping my feet.  :D
Title: Re: Frost* Forum Collab Song - the tech thread (TTT!)
Post by: Drarok on August 19, 2010, 11:32:35 PM
Please, don't insult any budding (or actual?) producers reading this thread by calling my file a "mix"! :lol:
I really love Logic. I recorded the guitar clean, then applied Amp Sims and Vitual Stomp Boxes to get that nasty guitar tone. Can switch in a different amp at any time - magic!

I had a bit of a clean-guitar noodle along with the theremin part, but thought that was best left on its own.
Title: Re: Frost* Forum Collab Song - the tech thread (TTT!)
Post by: RWA on August 20, 2010, 12:08:41 AM
Quote from: "Pedro"
Pedro Task List :-

1) Post extended EPiano Intro as WAV DONE
2) Post extended 12-String Lead-in as WAV DONE
3) Post guitar for "rawk" section NEXT
4) Post bass for "rawk" section NEXT
5) Consider 12-String backing for Theremin section
6) Ponder possible future sections
...anything missing?

@RWA: Please let me know if my adaptations of the extended EP and 12-String parts (har!) "work" ok.
Got 1 and 2, thanks.
5 would be nice to make the transition more natural. Good luck!

Quote from: "Drarok"
I'm just mirroring the MIDI powerchords at the minute, and there's one really obvious join between takes I need to fix if you want to use my bit at all. :)
Yeah, all ready noticed the join.... and left a comment.  :lol:
Yes, I like to use it! So fix it please.

Quote from: "Drarok"
Mirrored here in case other folks can't access the Box:
Thanks but there's no need for that. Everything is mirrored in the public FFCS file which can be accessed by anyone without a box.net account: http://http://www.box.net/ffcs

Quote from: "RWA"
Quote from: "El_Mayonnaise"
Hmm, no idea what happened with the drum syncing  :?

If you could drop a drumless version of the song so far into my folder ron, I can try recording again.

Sorry about that lads ad lasses.
No problem. Will have to wait till tomorrow though. Slightly busy at the moment.  :)
Well, it's 1:09 now so that's technically tomorrow! I've uploaded the drumless file but it's not entirely drumsless since I haven't got the individual files of Pedro's rock_section and ES's piano_section yet. Will upload a total drumless version when I've got those.

No rush boys and girls. We all have lives so whenever you're ready, k?!
Title: Re: Frost* Forum Collab Song - the tech thread (TTT!)
Post by: RWA on August 20, 2010, 12:23:24 AM
Well I have no life really so I just keep babbling....  ;)

One other general request (this is a work in progress and so is the method):
Delete files when you think they're not necessary anymore. Like in Pedro's case: when I've got the individual WAV parts for the intro section all the previous mp3 versions can be deleted. I'll probably fool around in your files (har!) myself in that way to keep things clear. Basic rule: when a part is accepted and included in my project it can go. It will be included in the latest version of the entire song anyway.
I might even delete some WAV files along the way to keep the box clean but I'll  figure that one out myself. Once I have the WAV files (and the daily backup I make) on my putta there's no need for them to be online anymore.

Anyway, it's my way of keeping things tidy and manageable. I am used to working with 1 person but we're up to 9 all ready and counting!







*burp*







Oops!  :oops:







So! Are we having fun or what?!  8-)
Title: Re: Frost* Forum Collab Song - the tech thread (TTT!)
Post by: Pedro on August 20, 2010, 12:58:35 AM
Pedro Task List :-

1) Post extended EPiano Intro as WAV DONE
2) Post extended 12-String Lead-in as WAV DONE
3) Post guitar for "rawk" section DONE
4) Post bass for "rawk" section DONE
5) Consider 12-String backing for Theremin section NEXT
6) Tidy-up files
7) Ponder possible future sections
...anything missing?

Just realised, I uploaded the "rawk" bits as WAVs which was prolly pointless since, they're not good enough to live on and need putting out of their misery soon (by Drarok and maybe a passing bassist?).
Plus they will need tweaking for the transition into the next section, so, general rule, mp3's until explicitly asked for WAVs, right?
Title: Re: Frost* Forum Collab Song - the tech thread (TTT!)
Post by: gr8gonzo on August 20, 2010, 02:10:40 AM
I would think we should stick with mp3's for any files that aren't intended as final.

I've been listening to it and am developing some ideas. I need to dust off the XP-50 and see if anything's worthy to add. I'm thinking some backing strings, synth accents on the rock part (a la end of BLM) and I've got an original section to add somewhere. I'll do one "for reference" file with keys, drums and maybe bass, and one file of the keys alone so others can add to it if they so choose. That's the plan, anyway.
Title: Re: Frost* Forum Collab Song - the tech thread (TTT!)
Post by: RWA on August 20, 2010, 04:51:03 AM
Quote from: "Pedro"
Just realised, I uploaded the "rawk" bits as WAVs which was prolly pointless since, they're not good enough to live on and need putting out of their misery soon (by Drarok and maybe a passing bassist?).
Plus they will need tweaking for the transition into the next section, so, general rule, mp3's until explicitly asked for WAVs, right?
That's correct. But leave them for now. No need to do this twice.  :)
Title: Re: Frost* Forum Collab Song - the tech thread (TTT!)
Post by: Drarok on August 20, 2010, 08:03:27 AM
Ooh, I meant to ask earlier: is there a file containing the tempo/signature changes?
I can see the image of the project, and it said pedro's bit changes to 150 bpm at bar 79, but I had to add a bar of 5/4 or something to get the 1st beat to align.
Title: Re: Frost* Forum Collab Song - the tech thread (TTT!)
Post by: RWA on August 20, 2010, 09:28:44 AM
Quote from: "Drarok"
Ooh, I meant to ask earlier: is there a file containing the tempo/signature changes?
I can see the image of the project, and it said pedro's bit changes to 150 bpm at bar 79, but I had to add a bar of 5/4 or something to get the 1st beat to align.
I think the image file is clear enough (although the timsign wasn't included because it stays 4/4):
the project starts at bar 2 and the music starts at bar 3 at 130 bpm, timsign = 4/4
It goes to 150 bpm at bar 79 and the timsign stays 4/4

Be aware that I've been cutting/repeating some of the original files. So if you use those original files you might end up at different bars. Make sure you use the latest FFCS version (which is still 1 at this moment) and the included image to compare.
Title: Re: Frost* Forum Collab Song - the tech thread (TTT!)
Post by: gav on August 20, 2010, 05:37:20 PM
Hi all!
Unfortunately, I cannot really participate in this collaberation because of a) My internet connection speed, and b) My lack of any good way to record anything. :(

Anyway, I just had a thought relating to both the recording, and/or production of the project- What would we do if a certain part needed double tracking (such as guitars etc.)?
I was only thinking of this since people my not see the need for a part to be recorded twice, but Ron may,  in which case people may need to re-record parts some time after the origional was recorded, which could cause problems... :?

Just a thought...
Title: Re: Frost* Forum Collab Song - the tech thread (TTT!)
Post by: Drarok on August 20, 2010, 06:44:13 PM
Quote from: "RWA"
I think the image file is clear enough (although the timsign wasn't included because it stays 4/4):
the project starts at bar 2 and the music starts at bar 3 at 130 bpm, timsign = 4/4
It goes to 150 bpm at bar 79 and the timsign stays 4/4
Well that's odd, then. Looks like I've gained a beat somewhere! :lol:

I've just re-recorded the hiccup guitar part and updated the Box, both the guitar only file and the one with Pedro's backing. I think. It's not entirely clear.
Title: Re: Frost* Forum Collab Song - the tech thread (TTT!)
Post by: Pedro on August 21, 2010, 07:32:58 PM
Pedro Task List :-

1) Post extended EPiano Intro as WAV DONE
2) Post extended 12-String Lead-in as WAV DONE
3) Post guitar for "rawk" section DONE
4) Post bass for "rawk" section DONE
5) Consider 12-String backing for Theremin section DONE
6) Tidy-up files DONE
7) Ponder possible future sections NEXT
...anything missing?

@Ron, your call on how much of the 12 string really works. Let me know if you want the separate sections (Lead-In, Verse, SnowBridge).

Also, in my DAW I think it sounds kinda cool having the Theremin effect tail (delay/reverb)over the start of the "SnowmanBridge" bit. You don't have this because of the (brilliant IMO) decision to start the "SnowmanBridge" bit where you do. I've posted a suitably trimmed Theremin part (har!) too.
Title: Re: Frost* Forum Collab Song - the tech thread (TTT!)
Post by: RWA on August 21, 2010, 08:17:38 PM
Quote from: "Pedro"
Pedro Task List :-

1) Post extended EPiano Intro as WAV DONE
2) Post extended 12-String Lead-in as WAV DONE
3) Post guitar for "rawk" section DONE
4) Post bass for "rawk" section DONE
5) Consider 12-String backing for Theremin section DONE
6) Tidy-up files DONE
7) Ponder possible future sections NEXT
...anything missing?

@Ron, your call on how much of the 12 string really works. Let me know if you want the separate sections (Lead-In, Verse, SnowBridge).

Also, in my DAW I think it sounds kinda cool having the Theremin effect tail (delay/reverb)over the start of the "SnowmanBridge" bit. You don't have this because of the (brilliant IMO) decision to start the "SnowmanBridge" bit where you do. I've posted a suitably trimmed Theremin part (har!) too.
Excellent!  :)

*har!*


Did you know that Box.net, in all it's tidyness and commitment, dropped me individual e-mails about every file you moved to your trash can?!  :o  Not your fault of course; it's Box.net. Is this a german site by any chance?!  :lol:


Note to self: *lower my box.net e-mail-notification settings even more then I all ready did!*
Title: Re: Frost* Forum Collab Song - the tech thread (TTT!)
Post by: Pedro on August 21, 2010, 08:21:47 PM
LOL, yes, it gave me a mail for every file you deleted and moved too.

I just wish it would say who "Someone" is...it must know!
Title: Re: Frost* Forum Collab Song - the tech thread (TTT!)
Post by: gr8gonzo on August 21, 2010, 09:26:49 PM
I really liked the theramin tail going into the Snowman section. Maybe add a crystal shimmer or harp strum (or both) with that transition?
Title: Re: Frost* Forum Collab Song - the tech thread (TTT!)
Post by: rogerg on August 21, 2010, 10:04:12 PM
Quote from: "Drarok"
Quote from: "RWA"
I think the image file is clear enough (although the timsign wasn't included because it stays 4/4):
the project starts at bar 2 and the music starts at bar 3 at 130 bpm, timsign = 4/4
It goes to 150 bpm at bar 79 and the timsign stays 4/4
Well that's odd, then. Looks like I've gained a beat somewhere! :lol:

I've just re-recorded the hiccup guitar part and updated the Box, both the guitar only file and the one with Pedro's backing. I think. It's not entirely clear.

I had to put in a wicked tempo change curve to get it to line up:
(http://http://www.rogergrow.com/image/ffcstempochange1a.jpg)

trying to catch up...  :P
Title: Re: Frost* Forum Collab Song - the tech thread (TTT!)
Post by: rogerg on August 21, 2010, 10:23:53 PM
ok. I just threw up a little three-measure thing (mp3 and midi) for after the guitar part (har!) (or wherever, or nowhere!) where the first full version stops (measure 112)

crazy enharmonics that I'm ignoring...  oh, and they're all triplets; I just didn't futz with the notation of the last couple of beats.

(http://http://www.rogergrow.com/image/measure112-114.jpg)


do what you will...
Title: Re: Frost* Forum Collab Song - the tech thread (TTT!)
Post by: Drarok on August 21, 2010, 10:32:14 PM
Quote from: "rogerg"
I had to put in a wicked tempo change curve to get it to line up:

trying to catch up...  :P
I didn't even know that was possible! I really ought to get some Logic training.
Title: Re: Frost* Forum Collab Song - the tech thread (TTT!)
Post by: rogerg on August 21, 2010, 10:35:21 PM
Quote from: "Drarok"
Quote from: "rogerg"
I had to put in a wicked tempo change curve to get it to line up:

trying to catch up...  :P
I didn't even know that was possible! I really ought to get some Logic training.

heh  

I had to look it up to remember!

learn as you go, and don't be afraid to open up the manual!
Title: Re: Frost* Forum Collab Song - the tech thread (TTT!)
Post by: Pedro on August 21, 2010, 10:43:09 PM
Quote from: "gr8gonzo"
I really liked the theramin tail going into the Snowman section. Maybe add a crystal shimmer or harp strum (or both) with that transition?
Yeah, I can 'hear' that. There is a small strum in the full 12-string part (har!) but it's after the start of the gorgeous Snowman Bridge.
Title: Re: Frost* Forum Collab Song - the tech thread (TTT!)
Post by: RWA on August 21, 2010, 10:55:18 PM
Quote from: "Pedro"
LOL, yes, it gave me a mail for every file you deleted and moved too.

I just wish it would say who "Someone" is...it must know!
Hmm... let me see if I can change those settings also. An I gotta find out who "someone" is!  :?  :lol:
Title: Re: Frost* Forum Collab Song - the tech thread (TTT!)
Post by: RWA on August 21, 2010, 11:22:13 PM
Quote from: "rogerg"
Quote from: "Drarok"
Quote from: "RWA"
I think the image file is clear enough (although the timsign wasn't included because it stays 4/4):
the project starts at bar 2 and the music starts at bar 3 at 130 bpm, timsign = 4/4
It goes to 150 bpm at bar 79 and the timsign stays 4/4
Well that's odd, then. Looks like I've gained a beat somewhere! :lol:

I've just re-recorded the hiccup guitar part and updated the Box, both the guitar only file and the one with Pedro's backing. I think. It's not entirely clear.

I had to put in a wicked tempo change curve to get it to line up:
(http://http://www.rogergrow.com/image/ffcstempochange1a.jpg)

trying to catch up...  :P
Look at that! That's..... funky!  :lol:
Never saw that before. But really, the tempo goes from 130 to 150 bpm straight at 79 bar (if you import the FFCS at 2 that is). It's a straight line up for me in Cubase.

Heh, funny to see how this thing is created using different DAW programs and hardware recorders. I think we eventually slip into an alternate/parallel universe which doesn't even exists!  :mrgreen:


Anyway! I'll be working on this again tomorrow a bit (before work) and on Monday to see how it all fits so far. Will obviously check out the bit you wrote there Roger. Sounds interesting.  :)
Title: Re: Frost* Forum Collab Song - the tech thread (TTT!)
Post by: rogerg on August 21, 2010, 11:40:43 PM
Quote from: "RWA"
Look at that! That's..... funky!  
Never saw that before. But really, the tempo goes from 130 to 150 bpm straight at 79 bar (if you import the FFCS at 2 that is). It's a straight line up for me in Cubase.

yeah, I can probably drag the 150 marker over to bar 79, and have it work.  the curve is pretty tight, so it's basically there by then.

and also yeah, I should move the whole file over a measure, so the music begins on bar 3?

this is fun!
Title: Re: Frost* Forum Collab Song - the tech thread (TTT!)
Post by: Pedro on August 22, 2010, 01:24:12 AM
Just posted a musical "sketch" based on roger's riff.
I stole a drum pattern from Unitopia's new album, had Spock's Ryo and his organ (har!) in mind and found a StylusRMX pattern that reminded me of one of Jem's glitch-fests.

Not really a serious submission for the piece but it might trigger some other ideas...

I really think I should step back for a bit now - too much time on my hands but I have some other projects I can do.
I know I've said this before....  :roll: :)
Title: Re: Frost* Forum Collab Song - the tech thread (TTT!)
Post by: rogerg on August 22, 2010, 02:07:54 AM
Quote from: "Pedro"
Just posted a musical "sketch" based on roger's riff.
I stole a drum pattern from Unitopia's new album, had Spock's Ryo and his organ (har!) in mind and found a StylusRMX pattern that reminded me of one of Jem's glitch-fests.

Not really a serious submission for the piece but it might trigger some other ideas...

I really think I should step back for a bit now - too much time on my hands but I have some other projects I can do.
I know I've said this before....  :roll: :)


hey, cool!  I like!  how about a midi file?
Title: Re: Frost* Forum Collab Song - the tech thread (TTT!)
Post by: Pedro on August 22, 2010, 02:12:40 AM
Quote from: "rogerg"
Quote from: "Pedro"
Just posted a musical "sketch" based on roger's riff.
I stole a drum pattern from Unitopia's new album, had Spock's Ryo and his organ (har!) in mind and found a StylusRMX pattern that reminded me of one of Jem's glitch-fests.
Not really a serious submission for the piece but it might trigger some other ideas...
I really think I should step back for a bit now - too much time on my hands but I have some other projects I can do.
I know I've said this before....  :roll: :)
hey, cool!  I like!  how about a midi file?
Can and will do. Just the organ part, right?  :)
Title: Re: Frost* Forum Collab Song - the tech thread (TTT!)
Post by: rogerg on August 22, 2010, 02:17:21 AM
Quote from: "Pedro"
Quote from: "rogerg"
Quote from: "Pedro"
Just posted a musical "sketch" based on roger's riff.
I stole a drum pattern from Unitopia's new album, had Spock's Ryo and his organ (har!) in mind and found a StylusRMX pattern that reminded me of one of Jem's glitch-fests.
Not really a serious submission for the piece but it might trigger some other ideas...
I really think I should step back for a bit now - too much time on my hands but I have some other projects I can do.
I know I've said this before....  :roll: :)
hey, cool!  I like!  how about a midi file?
Can and will do. Just the organ part, right?  :)

(har)

whatever you have!    8-)
Title: Re: Frost* Forum Collab Song - the tech thread (TTT!)
Post by: Pedro on August 22, 2010, 02:37:44 AM
The organ part midi file is up. (...and thrice har!)
The Stylus and drum parts will mean nothing without Stylus and the right drum mapping so that's not up.
The Bass line is also not up, for it is grim, someone who works downstairs with the bass frequencies should (please) show me how it should be done. :)
Title: Re: Frost* Forum Collab Song - the tech thread (TTT!)
Post by: rogerg on August 22, 2010, 02:47:08 AM
it's so much fun to to throw different sounds at it!  mono leads, big saws, etc.  whee!!!!
Title: Re: Frost* Forum Collab Song - the tech thread (TTT!)
Post by: RWA on August 22, 2010, 12:53:16 PM
Version 2 is uploaded: http://http://www.box.net/ffcs#/ffcs/1/49426852
Title: Re: Frost* Forum Collab Song - the tech thread (TTT!)
Post by: gr8gonzo on August 22, 2010, 01:40:28 PM
That's pretty cool so far.
Title: Re: Frost* Forum Collab Song - the tech thread (TTT!)
Post by: Pedro on August 22, 2010, 03:07:05 PM
Hmm...undone homework it seems.
Fresh WAVs coming right up! ;)
Title: Re: Frost* Forum Collab Song - the tech thread (TTT!)
Post by: gr8gonzo on August 22, 2010, 03:56:52 PM
Did I see a .rar file? Wot's it?
Title: Re: Frost* Forum Collab Song - the tech thread (TTT!)
Post by: Pedro on August 22, 2010, 04:52:08 PM
Cap'n Ron said that when uploading WAVs, if possible, to use zip or rar.
So each of the 5 WAVs, that the latest treasure map (track view jpg) asked for, have been crunched in to a rar archive.

I hadn't heard of rar archives until about a year ago.  :)
Title: Re: Frost* Forum Collab Song - the tech thread (TTT!)
Post by: RWA on August 22, 2010, 05:44:08 PM
Quote from: "Pedro"
Cap'n Ron said that when uploading WAVs, if possible, to use zip or rar.
So each of the 5 WAVs, that the latest treasure map (track view jpg) asked for, have been crunched in to a rar archive.

I hadn't heard of rar archives until about a year ago.  :)
Yeah I did.

A:
Perhaps not that necassery for now (I have 10 Gb to share) but it will be later in the game. WAV files can become very large and RAR is extremely efficient in downsizing. Better then ZIP is my experience. But both are fine by me.

B:
Besides, Box.net isn't able to let you preview WAV anyway so there's no use for full size WAV files up there. You'll have to download and unpack anyway.

C:
And don't forget not anyone has broadband internet. For some every mb matters. In this particular case 51.8 mb of WAV files were packed into a WINRAR file of 20.9 mb. Worth the effort I'd say.

D:
Because I said so!  :lol:
Title: Re: Frost* Forum Collab Song - the tech thread (TTT!)
Post by: monument on August 23, 2010, 12:27:12 AM
Not to come in on this late and beg to be a part of it or anything, but I'm a rather competent (and...probably a bit modest) guitarist and could probably do some vocals, and have pretty decent kit in order to do it. No pro-tools though, is that a must? And am I simply too late to get involved...?
Title: Re: Frost* Forum Collab Song - the tech thread (TTT!)
Post by: gr8gonzo on August 23, 2010, 01:05:41 AM
I'm pretty sure this project abides by the "the more the merrier" and "better late than never" cliches. You're not really late, though. It's just getting started.
Title: Re: Frost* Forum Collab Song - the tech thread (TTT!)
Post by: Pedro on August 23, 2010, 08:15:14 AM
gr8gonzo is completely right.
There are so many ways people can get involved.

Even without any way of recording stuff, if you can hear you have all the gear you need to comment on what's there and suggest ways to move forward or maybe you can dream-up some lyrics.

If you have any form of recording gear that can end up producing an audio file that can be uploaded to the interweb then you can join in.
Either by singing/playing-along with the work-in-progress song to provide  a real/better/alternative/additional part (har!) or by coming up with something new/different that could be used later in the piece (or even in another song).

You don't need ProTools. If you have anything like that (Logic, Cubase, Sonar, Reaper, etc.) you should be able to do something. If you don't have any such thing but want to get started then I'm sure folk here will do what they can to help.

The only 'rules' are; a) Ron (RWA) has the helm, in order to keep things moving and flip a coin now and again :) and b) don't post anything that you feel too strongly about - if you'd be offended by criticism or it not being used then this collaboration may not be the right place. :)
So....jump in!
Title: Re: Frost* Forum Collab Song - the tech thread (TTT!)
Post by: RWA on August 23, 2010, 08:25:31 AM
Quote from: "monument"
Not to come in on this late and beg to be a part of it or anything, but I'm a rather competent (and...probably a bit modest) guitarist and could probably do some vocals, and have pretty decent kit in order to do it. No pro-tools though, is that a must? And am I simply too late to get involved...?
What Gonzo and Pedro said!
Drop me a PM containing your e-mail address. I'll hook you up with your own personal shiny folder in the project!  :)
Title: Re: Frost* Forum Collab Song - the tech thread (TTT!)
Post by: Phrog on August 23, 2010, 01:51:46 PM
In that case, I'll throw my hat in the ring too   :)  I'm mainly a guitarist, but am happy to add any other sonic business if required! You'll be getting a PM imminently, RWA.
Title: Re: Frost* Forum Collab Song - the tech thread (TTT!)
Post by: gav on August 23, 2010, 03:26:43 PM
Right chaps! My internet has held together for long enough for me to download the current MP3 of the song, and I'm mightily impressed! Just a suggestion here, what about some big pad chords on the keys with some Mitchell/Boyes esque shred?

Just a thought... :mrgreen:
Title: Re: Frost* Forum Collab Song - the tech thread (TTT!)
Post by: RWA on August 23, 2010, 03:35:29 PM
Uhm... got a bit carried away today!  :shock:
Wrote a new intro section (on top of some of Perdo's e-piano) that included JG and JM. The entire intro is now 4:00 minutes and the song truly kicks off at the rock section. Consider the new intro as my part of the song. I've redone my drums also to make it all more coherent.

The first 4 minutes sound like an overture now. I'm pretty sure some of those parts reprice later in the song/epic.

Had no time to create an image file anymore. If the section stays (if you folks like it that is) I'll upload it tomorrow incl. tim sigs and tempo.

Tell me what you think: FFCS version 3 (http://http://www.box.net/ffcs#ffcs/1/49507754/493335058/1)
Title: Re: Frost* Forum Collab Song - the tech thread (TTT!)
Post by: El_Mayonnaise on August 23, 2010, 09:13:59 PM
My ron, you have been busy  :)

It sounds really good and theres definitely frost sounds everywhere.

Not sold on the JG and JM clips yet though, think the ideas great just maybe using less of them? All constructive criticism I assure you  ;)

But blimey, the rest sounds fantastic
Title: Re: Frost* Forum Collab Song - the tech thread (TTT!)
Post by: RWA on August 23, 2010, 10:33:24 PM
Quote from: "El_Mayonnaise"
My ron, you have been busy  :)

Not sold on the JG and JM clips yet though, think the ideas great just maybe using less of them? All constructive criticism I assure you  ;)

But blimey, the rest sounds fantastic
Thanks.  :)
Yeah, I entered the samples at the end of the afternoon; might need some tweaking. Although I do believe some Frost* madness must be included in this song.  ;)
Title: Re: Frost* Forum Collab Song - the tech thread (TTT!)
Post by: Brom on August 24, 2010, 08:34:45 AM
Well, as we are Frosti*ing this up, (nice work so far everyone!) I'm considering some Tara B type analogue widdlings behind some or Ron's intro. I will keep me quiet, if nothing else!
Title: Re: Frost* Forum Collab Song - the tech thread (TTT!)
Post by: RWA on August 24, 2010, 07:58:56 PM
Version 4--> http://www.box.net/ffcs#/ffcs/1/49613094 (http://www.box.net/ffcs#/ffcs/1/49613094)

Slightly better version. I hope. Better drum sound and I took out most of the vocal sample bits for now to make sure you can hear how the introís build.

START: bar 1 to bar 4 (dead air for now)
Section 1 = Intro RWA incl. e-piano from Pedro (bar 4 to 58)
Section 2 = Ballad Pedro (bar 58 to 114)
Section 3 = Piano bridge ES (bar 114 to 134)
Section 1 to 3 = the overture for now. Probable will be expended when the song evolves.
Section 4 = Rock section Pedro (bar 134 till infinity)

Take a look at the image file to see how everything fits and where the tempo/tim sign switches are.

The idea so far:
I want to insert some speech samples between 1 and 4.
The song then start with the main theme which is Pedroís e-piano part.
Then the RWA part (section 1) kicks of the overture which goes all the way up to section 4
Section 4 is when the song really kicks off.
Since the overture contains different sections itís likely some of that will reprise later in the song.

Note: to keep the overture coherent Iíve played the entire drum track. At this moment I also did the drums for section 4 but I think the kick off of that section is  a perfect spot for another drummer to take over.



Right. All good and well. Now, judging/approving some one elseís parts is one thingÖ. approving your own part is awkward! So tell me what you think of my new intro.  If most of you approve itíll stay and Iíll upload my individual parts. If itís not then it might just as easily go. Be honest and objective please! If other parts can go... so can mine.

Iím gonna take a break from this for a few days until new ideas and parts are submitted, k?  :)
Title: Re: Frost* Forum Collab Song - the tech thread (TTT!)
Post by: Drarok on August 24, 2010, 08:53:35 PM
For those that can, would the MIDI recording of drums make more sense, rather than trying to mix several different kits? Not sure if your part was real or not, just a thought. I have electric drums, see. :)
I'll try to compose a section soon, rather than just stealing others' bits. :lol:
Title: Re: Frost* Forum Collab Song - the tech thread (TTT!)
Post by: Pedro on August 24, 2010, 09:08:34 PM
Thanks Ron. I'll have a listen later on and feedback as best I can.
I still kind of like the idea of the Milliontown closing theme being the first thing heard in this work to sketch the path from there to here, via some themes from the other songs (like Snowman).
Doesn't have to go like that, just my view.

I think I could carry on throwing loads of new parts at this but there's too much of me in there already and I won't put any more up for a while.

Instead I might see if I can further develop the idea that rogerg put up into a viable section to maybe fit later in the piece. Try some new stuff, dodge the presets! ;)
Title: Re: Frost* Forum Collab Song - the tech thread (TTT!)
Post by: catherine on August 24, 2010, 10:27:44 PM
Parts! Har!
Title: Re: Frost* Forum Collab Song - the tech thread (TTT!)
Post by: Pedro on August 24, 2010, 10:55:02 PM
Had a listen to v4 now and I like the way it's shaping up.

I think the intro is better for having more delicately applied vox samples.
Subtle is better I think (alternatively we could all just scream "You are a lion!" over and over and call it Frost* madness!  ;) )

A few things occur to me so far :-
1) I think just a little more of the EP before you part (har!) begins would "connect" better with the last track on the CD.
Hard to describe but if you consider Jem's theme as 32 bars (4 "lines" of 8 where lines 1 and 2 are close to identical), the EP on Version 4 starts at the beginning of the line 3 of the theme. It might sound better if is starts at the beginning of line 2, so 8 bars in instead of 16 bars in. Does that make sense or do I need to post a clip to illustrate?

2) I'm not sure the electirc piano is strong enough to "stand-up" behind your intro. Resting as nicely as your stuff does on the chords, I begin to think that a more robust sound would work better. The EP is ok for the first bit and the ballad bit. Maybe it's ok for the bit between too, I'll listen some more.

3) I think the transition into the ballad bit sounds great but the strings just kinda stop 4 bars in to Jem's theme. I wonder if a longer tail would work better? Could the strings track the chords to a complete fade-out by the 8th bar of the theme?

That's it for now, Nice job. :)
Title: Re: Frost* Forum Collab Song - the tech thread (TTT!)
Post by: RWA on August 25, 2010, 12:22:43 AM
Quote from: "Drarok"
For those that can, would the MIDI recording of drums make more sense, rather than trying to mix several different kits? Not sure if your part was real or not, just a thought. I have electric drums, see. :)
I'll try to compose a section soon, rather than just stealing others' bits. :lol:
It's played by me on my e-kit using Toontrack SD2.
You're idea of using midi files makes sense in that it gives me the oppertunity to apply everything to the same kit.

Then again, even within a program like SD2 switching between kits all ready changes the feel of a recording. So if one records midi using, say, a Roland e-kit (using one of the kits included in the module) it might sound a lot different applied to (one of my) SD (software) kits. Then others even might use other drum software. I predict a programming nightmare....  :?
I know from experience stuff I recorded on my TD6 kit using a TD6 module kit sounds rather different once I apply it to a SD (software) kit. Playing the thing all over but using the SD kit this time is usually the way it ends up. One of the major problems that occur are velocity settings. Something played on my kit doesn't automatically agree well with someone elses software kit.

That being said; I'll keep the option open. Anyone who records midi-drums can hand me the midi file. I'll certainly give it a try.
Title: Re: Frost* Forum Collab Song - the tech thread (TTT!)
Post by: RWA on August 25, 2010, 01:18:09 AM
Quote from: "Pedro"
Had a listen to v4 now and I like the way it's shaping up.
I think the intro is better for having more delicately applied vox samples.
Subtle is better I think (alternatively we could all just scream "You are a lion!" over and over and call it Frost* madness!  ;) )
I told you I got carried away!  :lol:
I've been wanting to use those vocal bits for about a year now and threw them into all at the same time.  :roll:
Spooky thing btw is that the JM scream fits perfectly on that spot like it was ment there!

Anyway, sample bits will be dealth with later I'm sure.

Quote from: "Pedro"
A few things occur to me so far :-
1) I think just a little more of the EP before you part (har!) begins would "connect" better with the last track on the CD. Hard to describe but if you consider Jem's theme as 32 bars (4 "lines" of 8 where lines 1 and 2 are close to identical), the EP on Version 4 starts at the beginning of the line 3 of the theme. It might sound better if is starts at the beginning of line 2, so 8 bars in instead of 16 bars in. Does that make sense or do I need to post a clip to illustrate?

2) I'm not sure the electirc piano is strong enough to "stand-up" behind your intro. Resting as nicely as your stuff does on the chords, I begin to think that a more robust sound would work better. The EP is ok for the first bit and the ballad bit. Maybe it's ok for the bit between too, I'll listen some more.
Yes, it's a bit short, ain't it? I've been focussing on the transition to much and forgot how short the ep_intro now was. Good point!

You know..... thinking about both the arguments...... something pops to mind:
What if we restore the lenght of the e-piano section and use it for the intro (before my part) ...... but instead of using that or any other instrument..... it will be vocals?! So that's the entire part but then sung in harmonies (either using "oooh" or "aaaah" or yet to be written lyrics) by the singers involved?! I bet Roger can conduct a thing like that!
Then we'll have the end of that lead into my tapping guitar and off we go.

Quote from: "Pedro"
3) I think the transition into the ballad bit sounds great but the strings just kinda stop 4 bars in to Jem's theme. I wonder if a longer tail would work better? Could the strings track the chords to a complete fade-out by the 8th bar of the theme?

Yes it stops drastically but I did that on purpose. If you look at the version_4_image file you'll see it screams "put goodness here!". The strings might go on a tiny bit longer eventually but I wanted to leave it open for now.I could fill it up but I don't want to. I want other people to make something up. :)
Title: Re: Frost* Forum Collab Song - the tech thread (TTT!)
Post by: rogerg on August 25, 2010, 01:57:38 AM
Quote from: "RWA"
You know..... thinking about both the arguments...... something pops to mind:
What if we restore the lenght of the e-piano section and use it for the intro (before my part) ...... but instead of using that or any other instrument..... it will be vocals?! So that's the entire part but then sung in harmonies (either using "oooh" or "aaaah" or yet to be written lyrics) by the singers involved?! I bet Roger can conduct a thing like that!
Then we'll have the end of that lead into my tapping guitar and off we go.

yeah!  now, just please clarify to my addled brain (school starts tomorrow) exactly which e-piano part needs to be vocalised, and we can make that happen!
Title: Re: Frost* Forum Collab Song - the tech thread (TTT!)
Post by: RWA on August 25, 2010, 02:24:08 AM
Quote from: "rogerg"
Quote from: "RWA"
You know..... thinking about both the arguments...... something pops to mind:
What if we restore the lenght of the e-piano section and use it for the intro (before my part) ...... but instead of using that or any other instrument..... it will be vocals?! So that's the entire part but then sung in harmonies (either using "oooh" or "aaaah" or yet to be written lyrics) by the singers involved?! I bet Roger can conduct a thing like that!
Then we'll have the end of that lead into my tapping guitar and off we go.

yeah!  now, just please clarify to my addled brain (school starts tomorrow) exactly which e-piano part needs to be vocalised, and we can make that happen!
Yah!  :mrgreen:
Uhm... Pedro's original section I reckon. But let him point that out to you exaclty. So I'll leave it to you guys.

Surprise us!  :)
Title: Re: Frost* Forum Collab Song - the tech thread (TTT!)
Post by: gr8gonzo on August 25, 2010, 05:02:09 AM
Would you consider reverting E.S.'s Snowman bridge back to its original length? I rather liked it as it was.
Title: Re: Frost* Forum Collab Song - the tech thread (TTT!)
Post by: Pedro on August 25, 2010, 07:03:48 AM
I did wonder about trying to get vocal scales from people, 12 semitones of "ooh", "lah", "bum", (no offence to Jeff Wayne).
This could then be cut/paste assembled into a "choir" that might sound interesting....
Title: Re: Frost* Forum Collab Song - the tech thread (TTT!)
Post by: RWA on August 25, 2010, 12:28:21 PM
Quote from: "gr8gonzo"
Would you consider reverting E.S.'s Snowman bridge back to its original length? I rather liked it as it was.
I'll make note of it, k? If more people mention it I will.
Title: Re: Frost* Forum Collab Song - the tech thread (TTT!)
Post by: Pedro on August 25, 2010, 12:35:35 PM
Quote from: "RWA"
Quote from: "gr8gonzo"
Would you consider reverting E.S.'s Snowman bridge back to its original length? I rather liked it as it was.
I'll make note of it, k? If more people mention it I will.
Happy to do a "best of" take of the 12-string if you do cut it back.  :)
Title: Re: Frost* Forum Collab Song - the tech thread (TTT!)
Post by: RWA on August 25, 2010, 12:58:54 PM
Quote from: "Pedro"
Quote from: "RWA"
Quote from: "gr8gonzo"
Would you consider reverting E.S.'s Snowman bridge back to its original length? I rather liked it as it was.
I'll make note of it, k? If more people mention it I will.
Happy to do a "best of" take of the 12-string if you do cut it back.  :)
I'll leave it for now. If more people mention a certain issue or make a suggestion I will follow it through of course. But if it's all the same to you I'm not gonna grand everyone's request right away. If I do someone else will post "to bad you changed that back; I kinda liked the way you altered it"!  :lol:

Besides; all the individual parts are (or will be) available for anyone to download anyway. Anyone can make his/her own mix if they want to and point out suggestions that way.  :)
Title: Re: Frost* Forum Collab Song - the tech thread (TTT!)
Post by: gr8gonzo on August 25, 2010, 02:21:17 PM
My ears just felt that extra pass disrupted the flow of the song a bit. I won't be nitpicking every little thing - I promise!  :D Ultimately, it's your call, Ron. I leave it to you.
Title: Re: Frost* Forum Collab Song - the tech thread (TTT!)
Post by: RWA on August 25, 2010, 03:31:23 PM
Quote from: "gr8gonzo"
My ears just felt that extra pass disrupted the flow of the song a bit. I won't be nitpicking every little thing - I promise!  :D Ultimately, it's your call, Ron. I leave it to you.
No problem Gonzo! I just hope you understand I can't make eveyone happy. So far "just" 4 people collaborated but we all ready have 16 collaborators registered. And counting I assume!

You know, once this thing is finished it wouldn't surprise me if people started making remixes of it since all the individual parts well be available. That might become an experience on it's own.  :mrgreen:
Title: Re: Frost* Forum Collab Song - the tech thread (TTT!)
Post by: gr8gonzo on August 25, 2010, 04:19:20 PM
I had the same thought. Since all of the parts (har!) will be available, everyone could make their own mixes if they felt so inclined. I've got a couple of projects to finish this week, then hope to jump in with new bits for the FFCS! RAWK!
Title: Re: Frost* Forum Collab Song - the tech thread (TTT!)
Post by: RWA on August 25, 2010, 04:23:10 PM
You can now mess with my parts! -->http://http://www.box.net/ffcs#/ffcs/1/49703264
They are the section 1 RWA parts (double har!). The drums are section 1 to 4.
Note: I prefer if someone took over the drums starting at section 4.

I've also included a tempo_track file but I'm not sure if this work in hosts other then Cubase/Nuendo (as in "not Steinberg"). Just try. Import everything at bar 1 and you should be fine.

Here's the image file of FFCS_version_4 of how it should look like:
http://http://www.box.net/ffcs#ffcs/1/49613094/494110970/1
Title: Re: Frost* Forum Collab Song - the tech thread (TTT!)
Post by: Drarok on August 25, 2010, 07:45:53 PM
Just uploaded a "Cruddy Section" MP3, I can't seem to come up with anything good today. Bah. :(

Noodled around a bit looking for inspiration, but nothing struck me. Thought I'd upload it in case it fires any neurons out there. Please forgive the terrible joins between takes, I only ever tidy them up on the 2nd pass. :)
Title: Re: Frost* Forum Collab Song - the tech thread (TTT!)
Post by: mikebass on August 26, 2010, 12:21:59 AM
I will be more than willing to add some bassey goodness to this fine tuneage.
Title: Re: Frost* Forum Collab Song - the tech thread (TTT!)
Post by: Pedro on August 26, 2010, 12:33:43 AM
Yay! Please do.
It's there waiting to be done. :)
Title: Re: Frost* Forum Collab Song - the tech thread (TTT!)
Post by: mikebass on August 26, 2010, 12:40:23 AM
I'm currently trying to catch up with this thread but I will try and get some bass lines down by next week.

EDIT: Right I think I'm upto date with this thread now, may read it again tomorrow. So where can I get me some of the MIDI files/tabs/sheet music and which parts are in need of real bass?
Title: Re: Frost* Forum Collab Song - the tech thread (TTT!)
Post by: Drarok on August 26, 2010, 07:57:53 AM
Read the 1st post, RWA has been pasting info there. Sign up to box.net - it's like Dropbox.
Title: Re: Frost* Forum Collab Song - the tech thread (TTT!)
Post by: El_Mayonnaise on August 26, 2010, 01:05:54 PM
Totally agree with the idea of submitting the midi files for drums so that only one kit will be needed.

Just how do I do it though? :P

I have a Yamaha DTXpress IV and a laptop with reaper. Do I need some sort of MIDI to USB cable to allow me to record the midi notes?
 
Whats the best way to go about it?
Title: Re: Frost* Forum Collab Song - the tech thread (TTT!)
Post by: Pedro on August 26, 2010, 01:18:57 PM
Well, I have midi outs on the drum kit and midi ins on my "sound card".

You'll need something that the laptop sees as a midi interface, which could be a usb thing. There are midi to usb cables (loads on eBay) but I have no experience of using such things.
Title: Re: Frost* Forum Collab Song - the tech thread (TTT!)
Post by: David on August 26, 2010, 04:48:56 PM
Quote from: "mikebass"
Right I think I'm upto date with this thread now, may read it again tomorrow. So where can I get me some of the MIDI files/tabs/sheet music and which parts are in need of real bass?
Real bass, and real bassist!
Cool! 8-)
Title: Re: Frost* Forum Collab Song - the tech thread (TTT!)
Post by: RWA on August 26, 2010, 08:44:17 PM
Quote from: "El_Mayonnaise"
Totally agree with the idea of submitting the midi files for drums so that only one kit will be needed.

Just how do I do it though? :P

I have a Yamaha DTXpress IV and a laptop with reaper. Do I need some sort of MIDI to USB cable to allow me to record the midi notes?
 
Whats the best way to go about it?
Yes, a midi to usb device is what you need. They are really cheap. Or if your sound card has midi in you can use that. You can then record the midi information in a DAW. When you route it back to the DT module (most usb devices have midi in and out) the recorded midi notes will trigger the sounds. Make sure you use the drum editor in your program instead of the key editor/piano roll. That way you can see which note applies to what instrument (tom, snare etc.). What's also great is you can edit the recorded midi data to fix mistakes or sync problems.
Title: Re: Frost* Forum Collab Song - the tech thread (TTT!)
Post by: mikebass on August 26, 2010, 09:28:07 PM
Quote from: "David"
Quote from: "mikebass"
Right I think I'm upto date with this thread now, may read it again tomorrow. So where can I get me some of the MIDI files/tabs/sheet music and which parts are in need of real bass?
Real bass, and real bassist!
Cool! 8-)
We are a rare and elusive breed, we can often be found in the shadowy corners in local jazz clubs.
Title: Re: Frost* Forum Collab Song - the tech thread (TTT!)
Post by: El_Mayonnaise on August 27, 2010, 12:50:39 PM
My midi to usb thing arrived in the post, can anyone take me (and any other) through a quick 101 to midi drums?

In reaper, I think I found the drum editor bit but no sounds are coming out when I hit play. Any ideas?

Sorry to be such a newb  :lol:
Title: Re: Frost* Forum Collab Song - the tech thread (TTT!)
Post by: Pedro on August 27, 2010, 01:38:07 PM
I don't really know Reaper but, in general there should be a way for you to tell the program where it should get/send midi from/to.

Often in a menu like Options or Preferences, there'll be a midi item and this will allow you to choose which midi interface to use.

Once this is done, connecting midi out from the drums to the midi in on the interface should present midid data to the program.

Quite how you do the following in Reaper I don't know but you should be able to create a midi track , set its input to the midi interface either omni (all midi channels) or the specific channel the drums are sending on.

If your interface has lights on it might be worth checking that you see activity when you hit the drums.

If you hit record in Reaper (possibly have to "arm" the midi track first) then you might hear a metronome tick and see notes appearing as you hit the drums.

If you get this far you are doing well!

Then when you hit playback on Reaper, assuming you have midi out on the interface connected to midi in on the drums (and that you set the midi out of Reaper to be the interface) then you should hear the recording playing back.

Then, once you have that lot going, you can delve into the drum pattern editor or piano roll editor or whatever and get to work.

Now, I might be missing the point with Reaper, as I suggested, but hopefully some of that makes sense.

I've got to get back to work now but I'll check back in tonight to see how you are doing.  :D
Title: Re: Frost* Forum Collab Song - the tech thread (TTT!)
Post by: RWA on August 27, 2010, 03:28:26 PM
Quote from: "El_Mayonnaise"
My midi to usb thing arrived in the post, can anyone take me (and any other) through a quick 101 to midi drums?

In reaper, I think I found the drum editor bit but no sounds are coming out when I hit play. Any ideas?

Sorry to be such a newb  :lol:
Connect you drum module (midi out) to the PC using the midi- to-usb device (midi in).
Create a midi track in you DAW.
Make sure the device shows up in the track you are recording in as midi-in.
Hit record and hit your drums to see if any midi date is recorded.
Usually the default setting of a midi channel shows a key editor. If you want to alter the recorded (drum) midi notes it's best to switch the key editor to drum editor. Both work but the drum editor makes way more sense in this case.

Of course all of this doesn't make any sound because it's all midi. It has to trigger something. Usually when you play an e-kit you trigger the sounds from the drum module. I've you want to hear back those sounds you'll have to make sure the midi-out from the recorded midi track routes back to the drum module (midi out of your connecting device to midi in of your drum module)

If you want to attach it to a VSTi-drum plugin (like Superior Drummer, BFD, SampleTank, Kontakt, Infinite Player or something alike) to use those sounds then the midi-out should be routed to that. If your sound card has asio drivers and can run at a low latency (below 4 ms) you can use the software while playing our e-kit. So you immediately use the selected kit to play it "live". But low latency is crucial for that because having hearable (that's not a word is it?!) while you play drums is ^&$%@!

Good luck!  :)
Title: Re: Frost* Forum Collab Song - the tech thread (TTT!)
Post by: RWA on August 27, 2010, 03:30:10 PM
Oh, Pedro beat me with his post! (Har! --> beat! Get it?! Beat! Har!)

So yeah......  :?
Title: Re: Frost* Forum Collab Song - the tech thread (TTT!)
Post by: E.S. on August 27, 2010, 06:06:48 PM
Back!
Been a couple of crazy workweeks around here. Programming keyboards, recordings day and night, photo sessions..
Tonight I'm off, and I'm uploading my stuff as I'm writing this.
Haven't read this thread for ages, but will do now.
Title: Re: Frost* Forum Collab Song - the tech thread (TTT!)
Post by: E.S. on August 27, 2010, 06:32:32 PM
Oh.. new length. I'll re-record the piano then, and add variations.
Title: Re: Frost* Forum Collab Song - the tech thread (TTT!)
Post by: E.S. on August 27, 2010, 08:42:50 PM
Oh oh oh! I just listened to V.4, and wow, it sounds really cool! You guys have been productive as... as... well, someone productive.

And that inspired me, I just came up with this rockin riff. I uploaded it, along with the ending of what's been made so far just to keep it in context. Not sure about the transition there, but it's just an idea I got 15 minutes ago. Sorta like a Kansas/Dream Theater thing.

I've only been playing guitar for a week, so it might not be perfect. If you think it's hard, then yes.. I tune in D.  :mrgreen:

Does it work? Maybe a theme for some kind of verse, or some Malmsteen dude to shred his ass off.. you take it from here.

http://www.box.net/files#/files/0/f/487 ... _496516804 (http://www.box.net/files#/files/0/f/48702552/1/f_496516804)
Title: Re: Frost* Forum Collab Song - the tech thread (TTT!)
Post by: Pedro on August 28, 2010, 08:11:52 PM
That's a nifty riff ES and it does sound well suited to accompany vox.  :)

I know I said I was going to leave it alone but it's too much fun! :D  :roll:
I took Drarok's "cruddy" riffs and played around with trying to record real guitar over it. Going straight to heck for the lines I've used but it was only intended as a shakedown of the recording process.
I got as far as recording one of the guitar parts when I realised I'd cultivated a monster blister on one of my fretting fingers....gone soft, obviously (wuss)...so the other parts are all keys.

Not really a serious submission for inclusion in the piece but I thought I'd share it anyway.  :)

http://http://www.box.net/shared/3jff19042j
Title: Re: Frost* Forum Collab Song - the tech thread (TTT!)
Post by: RWA on August 29, 2010, 11:35:59 AM
Quote from: "E.S."
Oh.. new length. I'll re-record the piano then, and add variations.
WAV format for this for all I care because it won't change much I reckon. It's all ready goooood!  8-)

Quote from: "Pedro"
That's a nifty riff ES and it does sound well suited to accompany vox.  :)
I know I said I was going to leave it alone but it's too much fun! :D  :roll:
Yes you did but it is, isn't it?!  :D

Quote from: "Pedro"
Not really a serious submission for inclusion in the piece but I thought I'd share it anyway.  :)
http://http://www.box.net/shared/3jff19042j
I do like the Frost* references. So keep posting stuff. We'll see what gets used in the end.

*Sidetrack*
Did you talk to Roger yet about the "full vocal intro" idea?!
Title: Re: Frost* Forum Collab Song - the tech thread (TTT!)
Post by: Pedro on August 29, 2010, 04:22:13 PM
No one picked up on my "ooh, lah, bum" idea so, no, no takers yet. I might fabricate something using various vocal patches. See if that inspires....
Title: Re: Frost* Forum Collab Song - the tech thread (TTT!)
Post by: rogerg on August 29, 2010, 05:34:57 PM
sorry, hit a busy patch and haven't been able to give much time/thought to it.  I might see about getting all these files at work, when I might be able to give them more attention!   :P

Pedro, you want an octave or three on silly syllables?
Title: Re: Frost* Forum Collab Song - the tech thread (TTT!)
Post by: Pedro on August 29, 2010, 06:35:33 PM
Hey Rog, there's no pressure or anything....sorry if I gave that impression.

I'm not even sure how to arrange it right now. I've been poking around in sone presets for inspiration and I've found some great vocal stacks in Omnisphere that could do a Beach Boys kind of deal or even a barber shop feel.
The Choirs sounds are really lush too, even down to some rather enthusiastic soprano and tenor soloists.

Without some kind of steer on the style it's hard to know what to ask for.
Of course, if you had time to throw down some "sylly-ables" then there might be some inspiration to be drawn from that too. If you had a style (or even some lyrics?) in mind then go with that.

But at the end of the day it's all voluntary so just cos I am twiddling my presets rather a lot right now doesn't mean anyone else has to.  :)
Title: Re: Frost* Forum Collab Song - the tech thread (TTT!)
Post by: RWA on August 31, 2010, 07:58:28 PM
FFCS version 5 (http://http://www.box.net/ffcs#/ffcs/1/50202262) (import at bar 1 --> 130 bpm, 4/4)

RED = new

- Section 1: Pedro_E-piano section inserted as intro. (this is what you mend, right Pedro?!)
This intro will possibly be replaced or enhanced later by a vocal/choir section.
Because this is inserted the entire project moves 21 bars to the right!

- Section 2: RWA_kick off
- Section 3   : Pedro's 1st verse
- Section 4   : ES_Bridge
The ES-Bridge are individual parts now but still have the old lenght and are mp3. New lenght as WAV please! :mrgreen:
- Section 5   : Pedro_rock (incl. switch to 150 bpm)
- Section 5a: Roger sequence
Possibly replaced by instruments used in the rock_section. It's just piano now. But it fits me thinks. :)
- Section 6   ES_ rock

Didn't use the Pedro/Drarok_cruddy section. Yet! It might fit in later.

Look at the image file. Yellow parts need work. The entire song so far needs real bass. And vox. And synth leads!

  :)
Title: Re: Frost* Forum Collab Song - the tech thread (TTT!)
Post by: Gandalf1986 on August 31, 2010, 10:30:56 PM
Quote from: "RWA"
Look at the image file. Yellow parts need work. The entire song so far needs real bass. And vox. And synth leads!
  :)

Real bass, huh? May I collaborate for that? :)
Title: Re: Frost* Forum Collab Song - the tech thread (TTT!)
Post by: flamadiddle on August 31, 2010, 11:08:23 PM
Please bring back the Milliontown theme (ala the intro) as a bouncy chorus feel sometime towards the end.  I really want to collaborate on this but it's probably going to be a little while before I can.
Title: Re: Frost* Forum Collab Song - the tech thread (TTT!)
Post by: RWA on August 31, 2010, 11:23:16 PM
Quote from: "Gandalf1986"
Quote from: "RWA"
Look at the image file. Yellow parts need work. The entire song so far needs real bass. And vox. And synth leads!
  :)

Real bass, huh? May I collaborate for that? :)
Sure. Although it might be other bass players are working on this. Then again, those who deliver first have the most chance of being part of this. It's not a contest but if you deliver and it fits it's a done deal.  :)

Sign up if you want. Drop me an pm containing your e-mail address. I need it to add you to the project.

Quote from: "flamadiddle"
Please bring back the Milliontown theme (ala the intro) as a bouncy chorus feel sometime towards the end.  I really want to collaborate on this but it's probably going to be a little while before I can.
I guess it's clear now that particular theme will be the core of this epic. It's used twice now and will reprise 1 or 2 times more I think. In different tempo's and texture perhaps but it's the corner stone of this song.
Title: Re: Frost* Forum Collab Song - the tech thread (TTT!)
Post by: E.S. on September 01, 2010, 06:04:48 AM
Wav files coming from me very soon. Just gotta get some other recordings done.
Starting to sound like a cool song now. I like the transition you made into my last part. I left that a bit open, knowing the drums would be replaced anyway.

A request: On the Snowman theme by me, please play the kick drum in sync with the bass. It will be a much better groove. It's kinda messy now, IMO.
Title: Re: Frost* Forum Collab Song - the tech thread (TTT!)
Post by: RWA on September 01, 2010, 08:46:02 AM
Quote from: "E.S."
A request: On the Snowman theme by me, please play the kick drum in sync with the bass. It will be a much better groove. It's kinda messy now, IMO.
Will do!  :)
Title: Re: Frost* Forum Collab Song - the tech thread (TTT!)
Post by: mikebass on September 01, 2010, 04:33:17 PM
I thought I would have a bash at laying some bass down during pedders intro, it's a pretty rough recording but I will fix it if you guys think it fits in. Not sure if it would work better with just the piano.

http://http://www.box.net/shared/msb3ldyvn7
Title: Re: Frost* Forum Collab Song - the tech thread (TTT!)
Post by: RWA on September 01, 2010, 11:21:20 PM
Quote from: "mikebass"
I thought I would have a bash at laying some bass down during pedders intro, it's a pretty rough recording but I will fix it if you guys think it fits in. Not sure if it would work better with just the piano.

http://http://www.box.net/shared/msb3ldyvn7
Will try to fit it in tomorrow. We'll get back to you on this. Don't call us; we'll call you!  ;)
Title: Re: Frost* Forum Collab Song - the tech thread (TTT!)
Post by: Pedro on September 03, 2010, 02:08:32 AM
Hiya,
Still can't resist playing with this!

Uploaded a bit of a keys solo over the strings bit Ron tagged as needing something. It is the result of about 4 hours of noodling about, trying to come up with something decent....then I just got Jem to do it!  :D

I took the HyperV solo midi file and pushed it around a bit. Different parts of it kept sounding right in different places but never all together so I had to go in and do a bit of pruning and nudged a few notes up or down so as not to clash with the underlying chords too much. A surprisingly good fit I think.

http://www.box.net/shared/onzpnvi7zj (http://www.box.net/shared/onzpnvi7zj)

I'm not sure the lead sound I used is all that good. I went off-preset a bit and prolly made several school boy errors in my tweakery, but it serves to illustrate the idea. Maybe a real keys man would like to learn it and play it all proper like?

Enjoy!  :)
Title: Re: Frost* Forum Collab Song - the tech thread (TTT!)
Post by: Pedro on September 03, 2010, 04:12:23 AM
Good grief, just when I was about to switch off and go to bed I remembered that I had the BLM solo as a midi file too....and guess what?....

....with a little bit of tweakery again, there's another keys solo that kind of fits in the same place!

http://http://www.box.net/shared/gpvubxsfe9

Crikey! The guy isn't even working on the project and he's delivered two solos! :D

....and before anyone asks, I've tried playing both simultaneously and no, they don't really fit together....that would just be too spooky! :)
Title: Re: Frost* Forum Collab Song - the tech thread (TTT!)
Post by: Pedro on September 03, 2010, 09:49:35 AM
Might spend a few mins (aka hours!) seeing if I can comp the best fits from both. :)

EDIT: Actually, I'm more inclined to tweak the first one a little more to improve the fit.
Title: Re: Frost* Forum Collab Song - the tech thread (TTT!)
Post by: Drarok on September 03, 2010, 12:16:46 PM
The hyperventilate solo sounds a better fit to me, very cool! :)
Title: Re: Frost* Forum Collab Song - the tech thread (TTT!)
Post by: Pedro on September 03, 2010, 02:08:04 PM
Thanks (although pushing HIS notes around makes me feel rather inadequate - how does *anyone* come up with such brilliant stuff?).
I agree, and with a little more tweaking I think the HyperV solo is taking even better shape. I just need to get a better-sounding effect on the mod wheel in Omnisphere and I think it will be ready to put up again.
Title: Re: Frost* Forum Collab Song - the tech thread (TTT!)
Post by: RWA on September 03, 2010, 06:56:29 PM
Quote from: "Pedro"
Thanks (although push HIS notes around makes me feel rather inadequate - how does *anyone* come up with such brilliant stuff?).
I agree, and with a little more tweaking I think the HyperV solo is taking even better shape. I just need to get a better-sounding effect on the mod wheel in Omnisphere and I think it will be ready to put up again.
Prefer the Hyperventilate one. Wicked!  :mrgreen:
Title: Re: Frost* Forum Collab Song - the tech thread (TTT!)
Post by: Pedro on September 03, 2010, 10:23:57 PM
Ok. I've had another go with the HyperV solo and tweaked it a little more to fit the structure going on behind a little better.

http://www.box.net/shared/6cfiki37v9 (http://www.box.net/shared/6cfiki37v9)

The lead sound is still not stellar though. Years of "Hug-The-Preset" syndrome. :oops:

I'll try harder with the sound if people think it is now tweaked enough to go in "as is".
If it needs more tweaking I'm happy to keep going but I need a break from it for a few days.

What would be really cool is if a pukka keys-playing Frost*ie could take on learning it (or something like it) and then playing it for real. There's a lot of Jem's original nuances in there still but it doesn't feel completely "human" to me in the places where I know I've faked it.  :) I can upload the midi if that helps.  :)
Title: Re: Frost* Forum Collab Song - the tech thread (TTT!)
Post by: RWA on September 04, 2010, 08:08:38 PM
Like Pedro Iím trying to hold my horses but itís to much fun!  :?  :)
Right. Did some work today on the song and so far it seems about 95% of the submitted material finds its way to the song. Make sure you take a look at the image file again to see the details.

VERSION 6:

INTRO. Mike Bass added (partially)  and some pads. The pads are just a suggestion to let it build. The entire intro is still open to suggestion anyway because it might become all vocals anyway.

RWA SECTION. Drums start earlier. Gives the thing an It Bites feel I think.

THE HYPERVENTILATE SOLO! Brilliant move from Pedro. I love it! Cut back on the violins a bit to make it work even better. Iíve used the midi version of the solo provided by Pedro for now (it is still being altered by others right now) and found a solo sound to play it. It seems to fit nicely except for the bendy part. I canít seem to figure out which bend range Jem uses for the pitch bends.
*sigh*
Which is one of the big questions in life, ainít it? Never mind about global warming or peace in the middle east; I want to know what bend range Jem uses for the Hyperventilate solo!!!!  :D

TRON stunt double on the e-piano section. This section does need more but I hope others will take care of it. For now I filled it with some tron but it's highly questionable if it fits.  Oh, and Mike bass is used on this section also.

- The bass drum is now in sync with the bass in the ES-snowman section.
- Iíve used an organ sound for the Roger sequence.

Then my main concern was to see if I could use all 3 provide rock sections and then find a way out of it. To be able to do that Iíve continued playing drums (again not my wish for the end version; Iíll only be doing the drums up to the rock section) and added violins to both the ES-rock section and the Drarok Cruddy section. I break it down after that slowing down from 150 bpm back to 130 bpm to go to the Milliontown/Snowman reprise which has an acoustic feel to it.

Check the image file for the details. The RED sections are suggestions and experiments. They might as easily be deleted or changed or replaced by something better!

K, shoot! --> FFCS version 6 (http://http://www.box.net/ffcs#/ffcs/1/50534172)
Title: Re: Frost* Forum Collab Song - the tech thread (TTT!)
Post by: Pedro on September 04, 2010, 10:43:28 PM
Wow! Thanks Ron. You have been busy. :)

I love the Snowman bits. It was inspired of ES to submit that bit and it works so well where you've put it. I like the reurn of it and, while I know it's only my mouse-work and not a proper 12-string, I'm so pleased with how it sounds - although there is a slight fumble I hear in there now - might redo that.

In general I love what you've done with it all. There are some bits that sound "odd", but that may be because I get used to it sounding one way and it takes a while for new versions to sink in.

I think I hear what you mean about drums starting earlier being a bit It Bitesey but I can't help thinking that Mr Dalton would have done a little more that just the three crashes in the build up (maybe closed hat on the beats between?). After the fourth crash, there's of lot of snare-off sound for the next 8 bars. I wonder if this could be a descending tom pattern?
I might try to illustrate this somehow but leave it as jutst my bable for now! ;)

In terms of the new backings for the "main theme", I think the questionable bit might be because two voices are doing the shorter notes in the melody (in red in this highly technical description :)) :-
    "Daah, Dah, Duuuh, Da Da Da Daaaah, Da Da Daaaaah".

I think the pitch-bend was only +/- a whole tone (so 2 semitones up and 2 down). I like the sound you've chosen, I'll see if I can find something similar and post just the solo as an mp3.

Hearing all that gives me ideas for additioanl layers here and there so I might have a play tomorrow.  :)

Onwards....  :)
Title: Re: Frost* Forum Collab Song - the tech thread (TTT!)
Post by: Pedro on September 05, 2010, 04:55:01 AM
I just uploaded 4 (count them) different "takes" of the HyperJemSolo.
All use the same midi (which I have tidied up a little more) but drive different voices.
One is just a hybrid of the other three voices mashed together.
Hopefully one of these will make a better inclusion in the working piece than that "interestingly pitch-bent" version.  ;)
Title: Re: Frost* Forum Collab Song - the tech thread (TTT!)
Post by: RWA on September 05, 2010, 10:21:10 AM
Quote from: "Pedro"
In general I love what you've done with it all. There are some bits that sound "odd", but that may be because I get used to it sounding one way and it takes a while for new versions to sink in.
Sometimes it needs multiple listen to sink in but don't forget this is patchwork right now. I have to put different recordings together. To make them truly coherent some stuff needs to be re-recorded or done by 1 or 2 persons. Like the guitar parts in the rock section; the main theme should be played by one person in stead of 4 (2 being keyboard parts and 2 being guitar parts and they're all played by different people using different sounds). At this moment it's more about trying to see what chord sequences fit.  

Quote from: "Pedro"
I think I hear what you mean about drums starting earlier being a bit It Bitesey but I can't help thinking that Mr Dalton would have done a little more that just the three crashes in the build up (maybe closed hat on the beats between?). After the fourth crash, there's of lot of snare-off sound for the next 8 bars. I wonder if this could be a descending tom pattern?
I might try to illustrate this somehow but leave it as jutst my bable for now! ;)
Good points. Will look into it.  :)

Quote from: "Pedro"
In terms of the new backings for the "main theme", I think the questionable bit might be because two voices are doing the shorter notes in the melody (in red in this highly technical description :)) :-
    "Daah, Dah, Duuuh, Da Da Da Daaaah, Da Da Daaaaah".
I'm taking it out again for now.As I said I all ready found it questionable.
"Why leave it in then Ron?!"
"Uhm........ "  :?
 
:lol:

Quote from: "Pedro"
I think the pitch-bend was only +/- a whole tone (so 2 semitones up and 2 down). I like the sound you've chosen, I'll see if I can find something similar and post just the solo as an mp3.

Hearing all that gives me ideas for additioanl layers here and there so I might have a play tomorrow.  :)

Onwards....  :)
OK thanks! I now have to go out and find crime first. Will look into your editorial notes after that.
This is going well. We're molding this thing until it's perfect. And over 30 minutes of course.  :D
Title: Re: Frost* Forum Collab Song - the tech thread (TTT!)
Post by: Pedro on September 05, 2010, 01:19:40 PM
Cool.
...but did you mean "find crime" or "fight crime"...or both?  ;)
Title: Re: Frost* Forum Collab Song - the tech thread (TTT!)
Post by: RWA on September 05, 2010, 04:03:23 PM
Quote from: "Pedro"
Cool.
...but did you mean "find crime" or "fight crime"...or both?  ;)
Both! You first have to find it to fight it!  

(http://http://www.lahiguera.net/cinemania/actores/steven_seagal/fotos/1913/steven_seagal.jpg)
Title: Re: Frost* Forum Collab Song - the tech thread (TTT!)
Post by: RWA on September 07, 2010, 02:13:56 PM
Quote from: "Pedro"
I just uploaded 4 (count them) different "takes" of the HyperJemSolo.
All use the same midi (which I have tidied up a little more) but drive different voices.
One is just a hybrid of the other three voices mashed together.
Hopefully one of these will make a better inclusion in the working piece than that "interestingly pitch-bent" version.  ;)
Couldn't really decide on this. Maybe others will have a preference. I've use the midi file itself for now.


Version 7 (http://http://www.box.net/ffcs#/ffcs/1/50658372) is uploaded. No major changes in the structure; just some small alterations:
- took drum suggestions by Pedro and ES in consideration and altered some
- took the mellotron part out again
- spend some time creating a new image file with (lot's of) remarks/requests

For anyone involved so far: please check the image file to see remarks and requests.
Saves me a lot of typing and explaining!  :D

Haven't got much time for this the rest of the week but that's not a bad thing. This must not turn into the Pedro/RWA show, right?!  ;)

Please do comment on the progress/digress that's being made. I only know if stuff works as long as I get input.  My "breakdown the rock section into the reprise" is only a suggestion and is just one way of many to continue this song. If it's not liked I'll take it out again.
Title: Re: Frost* Forum Collab Song - the tech thread (TTT!)
Post by: mikebass on September 07, 2010, 04:08:23 PM
I'll redo my intro bass on Friday. The 1st track was just a rough guide to see if it would fit. I'll play tighter this time around :)
Title: Re: Frost* Forum Collab Song - the tech thread (TTT!)
Post by: Pedro on September 07, 2010, 07:37:05 PM
Thanks Ron, I'll have a listen to #7 when I get to my computer later on.
For the solo I'm really only bothered about getting the right notes and the right pitch-bend in there. The bend that was in #6 made the solo sound grim.
I'll upload the 'final' midi for the solo cos I tightened it up a bit. The problem I found was that some sounds react better to legato playing, pitch-bend and velocity than others...sometimes the fix was in editing the notes and not the sound. Anyway, I'm so happy that so much of it is Jem's original data!

I think the slow down to the acoustic bit is to die for with the string wash and the harmonic content of the guitar. It belongs in the piece somewhere for sure.

Agree about the need for more input from different sources, there were loads that have declared an interest so I hope we'll see hear from peeps with new ideas, lyrics, vocals, drums, etc, :)
Title: Re: Frost* Forum Collab Song - the tech thread (TTT!)
Post by: L33VEY on September 07, 2010, 10:39:21 PM
Quote from: "Pedro"
Agree about the need for more input from different sources, there were loads that have declared an interest so I hope we'll see hear from peeps with new ideas, lyrics, vocals, drums, etc, :)

Not that I dared declare any interest, but I've been listening to the great work in progress and I've got a suggestion.

As you're starting off with the last bit of Milliontown, but Jem has already done the sequel with Wonderland (I think), then is this the prequel?  So we join our unnamed 28 year old "Inside the Worm Cathedral" in St Giles churchyard.  With a zombie brain still working and oscillating between periods of calm reflection and frantic questioning?  Could end with the knock on the coffin lid by Death.

Some starter lyrics for those better than me to work on.

Starts at 0.18s
In this death
Chances don't come round twice
I fell safe inside
I feel time drift by
For Hours - and Hours

Ends 0.54s as guitar kicks in
Title: Re: Frost* Forum Collab Song - the tech thread (TTT!)
Post by: Pedro on September 07, 2010, 10:51:08 PM
I guess it might be an "Inbetwequel" then. :D

Not sure I can place where you mean for the lyrics, but I like 'em.

Did you mean "I fell safe" or "I feel safe"? "Fell" is kinda quirky. ;)
Title: Re: Frost* Forum Collab Song - the tech thread (TTT!)
Post by: gav on September 07, 2010, 10:55:41 PM
I would help with the lyrics effort, but I'm listening to AC/DC at the moment, so the only lyrics that are coming into my head are either to do with rock, hell or balls....











...big balls! ;)
Title: Re: Frost* Forum Collab Song - the tech thread (TTT!)
Post by: Jamyu on September 07, 2010, 11:02:05 PM
This is an amazing piece of stuff...

That blues'd up milliontown coda is awesome :)

I can't compose as well as you guys xD

Composition's never been my strong point, so I don't know if I'm good enough for this :P

2nd: The musical lines sound like they've been produced by good software. I don't have this either ;_: The best I have is sibelius 3, cakewalk which both sound midi-fied :P
Title: Re: Frost* Forum Collab Song - the tech thread (TTT!)
Post by: RWA on September 08, 2010, 01:06:54 AM
Lyric suggestions! Excellent!  :D
I'm very eager to hear some vocals on this.

I'm just gonna sit back and watch what happens for the rest of this week. Throw in ideas / suggestions / comments / rants / accusations / dead threads and weapons of mass destructions in the mean time. If you happen to be able to record and upload anything while you're at it then that would be a nice bonus!  8-)
Title: Re: Frost* Forum Collab Song - the tech thread (TTT!)
Post by: Pedro on September 08, 2010, 01:08:03 AM
I was listening to the "acoustic" bit currently at the end of the piece and I found myself hearing another bit of vox.

So, luckily, Jem had made it available a while back for Ron's excellent You and I experiments (RWA-remix) (http://http://www.box.net/rwa/1/29271560/303391972/1) so, with just a bit of nudging in terms of timing and a semitone shift up for the last four words, another suggestion was born....

http://www.box.net/shared/yzlg6t37to (http://www.box.net/shared/yzlg6t37to)

It is uncanny (to me at least) how 90% of it just fell into place over the chord sequence.

If we do end up with some lyrics that fit between Milliontown and Wonderland then these will likely not fit...but the melody and phrasing could be kept with new lyrics. Just an idea.  :)
Title: Re: Frost* Forum Collab Song - the tech thread (TTT!)
Post by: Pedro on September 08, 2010, 01:12:02 AM
@Ron: Yes, I think I need to take a break from this....I'm becoming obsessive!
If you could get that pitch-bend sorted out I'd appreciate it (or pop-in any of the versions I put up in the meantime).  :)
Hearing it going wonky really jars.

Right, 1:11am....this was going to be an early night! :roll:
Title: Re: Frost* Forum Collab Song - the tech thread (TTT!)
Post by: RWA on September 08, 2010, 01:18:19 AM
Quote from: "Pedro"
I was listening to the "acoustic" bit currently at the end of the piece and I found myself hearing another bit of vox.

So, luckily, Jem had made it available a while back for Ron's excellent You and I experiments (RWA-remix) (http://http://www.box.net/rwa/1/29271560/303391972/1) so, with just a bit of nudging in terms of timing and a semitone shift up for the last four words, another suggestion was born....

http://www.box.net/shared/yzlg6t37to (http://www.box.net/shared/yzlg6t37to)

It is uncanny (to me at least) how 90% of it just fell into place over the chord sequence.

If we do end up with some lyrics that fit between Milliontown and Wonderland then these will likely not fit...but the melody and phrasing could be kept with new lyrics. Just an idea.  :)
Ha! That's brilliant!!!! You have a good ear for these mash ups sir Pedro.  :D

I love how this song is build on Frost* bits taken out of their context. And we haven't even started playing stuff backwards! :shock:
Title: Re: Frost* Forum Collab Song - the tech thread (TTT!)
Post by: gr8gonzo on September 08, 2010, 01:48:05 AM
So, we're not limiting ourselves to Milliontown song bits, then? That's good, because the original section I'm working on has Mtown and EIMA bookends.
Title: Re: Frost* Forum Collab Song - the tech thread (TTT!)
Post by: RWA on September 08, 2010, 09:47:48 AM
Quote from: "gr8gonzo"
So, we're not limiting ourselves to Milliontown song bits, then? That's good, because the original section I'm working on has Mtown and EIMA bookends.
We're only limited by earths gravitation but I'm working on that as well!
Love to hear what you come up with Gonzo.  :)
Title: Re: Frost* Forum Collab Song - the tech thread (TTT!)
Post by: Dave M on September 08, 2010, 10:13:41 AM
Pedro .. you clever bugger ! That sounds great  :D
Title: Re: Frost* Forum Collab Song - the tech thread (TTT!)
Post by: E.S. on September 20, 2010, 03:16:27 PM
Yo.
I was about to export the stuff I did for my last part, but somehow there's no sound there. Something's wrong with my system here, after I reorganized some stuff. So I guess I would have to re-record it, or even better, maybe a real guitarist and bass player could do it properly.
I have so much to do with other recordings, so I don't know how much more I can add to this masterpiece. I'm turning into Jem, it seems.. only he's working with more well-known people and probably earns a dime or two. :mrgreen:
Workload is the same. Where did I go wrong? :lol:
Title: Re: Frost* Forum Collab Song - the tech thread (TTT!)
Post by: RWA on September 21, 2010, 05:10:34 AM
Quote from: "E.S."
Yo.
I was about to export the stuff I did for my last part, but somehow there's no sound there. Something's wrong with my system here, after I reorganized some stuff. So I guess I would have to re-record it, or even better, maybe a real guitarist and bass player could do it properly.
I have so much to do with other recordings, so I don't know how much more I can add to this masterpiece. I'm turning into Jem, it seems.. only he's working with more well-known people and probably earns a dime or two. :mrgreen:
Workload is the same. Where did I go wrong? :lol:
To bad you can't contribute more but it would be great if you could find the time to at least export the parts you've done so far according to the FFCS version 7. Once you've got your system running again that is....  ;)
Title: Re: Frost* Forum Collab Song - the tech thread (TTT!)
Post by: RWA on September 26, 2010, 12:34:46 AM
In a week or so I'll be a bit busy setting up my new system and getting the old system ready for a friend of mine. This is also a good time to clean out my studio for once. It's a horror to detach all the gear and take it from its place but this is a good time to do it.....  :?  

In the meantime, keep submitting stuff! I'll continue this when I'm up and running again. RWA 2.0 it'll be!  ;)





ps: if you never hear from me again...... the entire thing most likely exploded. Keep your eyes on any "home studio exploded in the north of Holland" news footage.  :P
Title: Re: Frost* Forum Collab Song - the tech thread (TTT!)
Post by: RWA on October 13, 2010, 12:03:19 AM
*Bump*

Studio RWA 2.0 is in business! Everything cleaned out and new gear placed and installed and configured and what not.

*Testing 1,2... testing 1,2....*
It's alive!  :mrgreen:


Waiting for folks to submit stuff. Cubase 5.5.1 is waiting!  ;)
Title: Re: Frost* Forum Collab Song - the tech thread (TTT!)
Post by: Pedro on October 13, 2010, 07:55:44 AM
Ooh, does that mean that the pitch-bend on the first solo can now be corrected then?  ;)  ;)

I shall have to revisit this soon, up to my neck in video clips at the moment.
Title: Re: Frost* Forum Collab Song - the tech thread (TTT!)
Post by: Drarok on October 13, 2010, 10:56:19 PM
What a coincidence, I've been noodling on my guitar this very eve!
Title: Re: Frost* Forum Collab Song - the tech thread (TTT!)
Post by: RWA on November 01, 2010, 02:45:50 PM
So yeah...... anyone still interested in this or what?!  :)
I have a load of empty folders over at box.net from people who signed up. Overall nothing has happened in weeks.

So seriously... is anyone still up for this.........?
Title: Re: Frost* Forum Collab Song - the tech thread (TTT!)
Post by: L33VEY on November 01, 2010, 07:40:38 PM
Quote from: "RWA"
So yeah...... anyone still interested in this or what?!  :)
I have a load of empty folders over at box.net from people who signed up. Overall nothing has happened in weeks.

So seriously... is anyone still up for this.........?


I take all the blame - put some lyrics up and everyone disappears.......   :cry:
Title: Re: Frost* Forum Collab Song - the tech thread (TTT!)
Post by: RWA on November 01, 2010, 07:45:53 PM
Quote from: "L33VEY"
Quote from: "RWA"
So yeah...... anyone still interested in this or what?!  :)
I have a load of empty folders over at box.net from people who signed up. Overall nothing has happened in weeks.

So seriously... is anyone still up for this.........?


I take all the blame - put some lyrics up and everyone disappears.......
:lol:
Title: Re: Frost* Forum Collab Song - the tech thread (TTT!)
Post by: Pedro on November 01, 2010, 08:43:08 PM
I'm VERY interested but I've been holding off cos there's heaps of me in there already.
I too hope that all those who signed-up can contribute in some way.

@Ron: Will you sort the pitch-bend and add the You/I vox?
Title: Re: Frost* Forum Collab Song - the tech thread (TTT!)
Post by: RWA on November 01, 2010, 09:15:05 PM
Quote from: "Pedro"
I'm VERY interested but I've been holding off cos there's heaps of me in there already.
I too hope that all those who signed-up can contribute in some way.

@Ron: Will you sort the pitch-bend and add the You/I vox?
I all ready did but thought it was to minor to justify a new version. Let me upload it anyway so we all know where we stand.

Also, keep the ideas coming Pedro. If others won't bother it doesn't you shouldn't either. Let's keep this ship sailing.
Title: Re: Frost* Forum Collab Song - the tech thread (TTT!)
Post by: gav on November 01, 2010, 10:30:44 PM
I feel really annoyed that I can't physically help, because I just don't have any recording gear! :evil:
Title: Re: Frost* Forum Collab Song - the tech thread (TTT!)
Post by: Drarok on November 02, 2010, 06:17:00 PM
I've recorded a few little bits and pieces, but I always feel my stuff is too plain, boring, or just crappy. :(
Title: Re: Frost* Forum Collab Song - the tech thread (TTT!)
Post by: catherine on November 02, 2010, 07:44:43 PM
I can't get any sound into my PC at the moment  :?
Title: Re: Frost* Forum Collab Song - the tech thread (TTT!)
Post by: Brodie on November 02, 2010, 11:17:43 PM
Quote from: "RWA"
Quote from: "Pedro"
I'm VERY interested but I've been holding off cos there's heaps of me in there already.
I too hope that all those who signed-up can contribute in some way.

@Ron: Will you sort the pitch-bend and add the You/I vox?
I all ready did but thought it was to minor to justify a new version. Let me upload it anyway so we all know where we stand.

Also, keep the ideas coming Pedro. If others won't bother it doesn't you shouldn't either. Let's keep this ship sailing.

Will pitch in soon - distraction has too many guises !

Brodie
Title: Re: Frost* Forum Collab Song - the tech thread (TTT!)
Post by: RWA on November 03, 2010, 12:50:12 PM
FFCS version 8 (http://http://www.box.net/ffcs#/ffcs/1/55600249) is uploaded.

No big changes, only the You/I vocal section by Pedro is added. I've sliced it up a bit to make it sound more in sync with the music.

Also, I can't seem to figure out what you mean with the bend problem Pedro. Perhaps you can upload a correct version so I can hear what you mean. Might as well be an audio version so I can copy and paste it into the project.

Drarok: I've left comments in your box.net folder. The building section is nice but I need to know the exact tempo.  :)

We're moving again!
Title: Re: Frost* Forum Collab Song - the tech thread (TTT!)
Post by: Drarok on November 03, 2010, 02:22:25 PM
Good question regarding the tempo, I'll have to check the project file when i get home later!

As for the other one, I knew it was a bit out, but thought it might be a waste of time re-recording if it wasn't any good. :)
Title: Re: Frost* Forum Collab Song - the tech thread (TTT!)
Post by: RWA on November 03, 2010, 02:45:38 PM
Quote from: "Drarok"
Good question regarding the tempo, I'll have to check the project file when i get home later!

As for the other one, I knew it was a bit out, but thought it might be a waste of time re-recording if it wasn't any good. :)
Can't say for sure if the up tempo part will be used but I DO like it. So it's worth fixing.
As for the tempo drift; perhaps it's prog XXXL and we just don't recognize it yet!  ;)
Title: Re: Frost* Forum Collab Song - the tech thread (TTT!)
Post by: Pedro on November 03, 2010, 07:26:27 PM
Quote from: "RWA"
FFCS version 8 (http://http://www.box.net/ffcs#/ffcs/1/55600249) is uploaded.
Also, I can't seem to figure out what you mean with the bend problem Pedro.
Hi Ron, thanks for that.
Oddly the pitch bend is now fine in Version 8, it was wrong in Version 7.
BUT the end of the solo now doesn't fade out and there is a big bum note after the note that should have faded.
There's already 4 different mp3 versions of the solo in my folder that illustrate the fade out but you had the fade out nailed in Version 7. Strange.  :?

Also, Rog's organ(har!) triad bit has disappeared. There's just drums there now...deliberate?

I see what you did with the You/I vox. Not a massive change but sounds good either way to me. :)
Title: Re: Frost* Forum Collab Song - the tech thread (TTT!)
Post by: Drarok on November 03, 2010, 09:11:43 PM
Quote from: "RWA"
Can't say for sure if the up tempo part will be used but I DO like it. So it's worth fixing.
As for the tempo drift; perhaps it's prog XXXL and we just don't recognize it yet!  ;)
Nah, I just suck at recording to a click track. >_<

I've re-done bits and uploaded now, let me know if you want any individual tracks. The bpms are in the filename now. :)
Title: Re: Frost* Forum Collab Song - the tech thread (TTT!)
Post by: RWA on November 03, 2010, 09:18:18 PM
Quote from: "Pedro"
Quote from: "RWA"
FFCS version 8 (http://http://www.box.net/ffcs#/ffcs/1/55600249) is uploaded.
Also, I can't seem to figure out what you mean with the bend problem Pedro.
Hi Ron, thanks for that.
Oddly the pitch bend is now fine in Version 8, it was wrong in Version 7.
BUT the end of the solo now doesn't fade out and there is a big bum note after the note that should have faded.
There's already 4 different mp3 versions of the solo in my folder that illustrate the fade out but you had the fade out nailed in Version 7. Strange.  :?

Also, Rog's organ(har!) triad bit has disappeared. There's just drums there now...deliberate?

I see what you did with the You/I vox. Not a massive change but sounds good either way to me. :)
Hmmm. I should've checked the entire thing before uploading. This was imported into Cubase 5 (build in 4) which shouldn't cause problems but obviously always does. Sorry for that. I didn't take the time to listen to the entire thing because only the end supposed to be different.

Anyway, all lame excuses for a rush job!  :oops:
 I'll take away version 8 and upload a proper one tomorrow.
Title: Re: Frost* Forum Collab Song - the tech thread (TTT!)
Post by: RWA on November 03, 2010, 09:21:35 PM
Quote from: "Drarok"
Quote from: "RWA"
Can't say for sure if the up tempo part will be used but I DO like it. So it's worth fixing.
As for the tempo drift; perhaps it's prog XXXL and we just don't recognize it yet!  ;)
Nah, I just suck at recording to a click track. >_<

I've re-done bits and uploaded now, let me know if you want any individual tracks. The bpms are in the filename now. :)
Excellent. Will look at it tomorrow.  :)
Title: Re: Frost* Forum Collab Song - the tech thread (TTT!)
Post by: RWA on November 04, 2010, 12:01:08 PM
Right! The proper FFCS version 8 (http://http://www.box.net/ffcs#/ffcs/1/55600249) is uploaded now.
Title: Re: Frost* Forum Collab Song - the tech thread (TTT!)
Post by: Jamyu on November 05, 2010, 01:11:24 PM
Loving the update! ^_^
Title: Re: Frost* Forum Collab Song - the tech thread (TTT!)
Post by: monument on November 10, 2010, 10:18:51 PM
Ach, I'm still interested, but I've been a complete let down having had work piled all over me. I could probably try a guitar solo or something on it somewhere if needs be (of course I could do more but I'm guessing its mostly been done so far). Just listening to the latest version now, it sounds fantastic.
Title: Re: Frost* Forum Collab Song - the tech thread (TTT!)
Post by: RWA on November 17, 2010, 01:21:13 PM
I've been experimenting with Drarok's latest parts but I can't seem to fit them in. For now. Maybe later.
Title: Re: Frost* Forum Collab Song - the tech thread (TTT!)
Post by: Drarok on November 17, 2010, 02:42:56 PM
Don't try too hard, I've just been throwing ideas in the folder, doesn't mean anything will stick. :)
Title: Re: Frost* Forum Collab Song - the tech thread (TTT!)
Post by: Jim Takacs on November 18, 2010, 06:40:35 PM
I Wanna Play too!  See if you can find any of this of use!  I have Lots of songs like this..  I can Get you any part or parts or Stems in whatever format you want! :oops:
http://soundcloud.com/oval-project/the- ... -title-tra (http://soundcloud.com/oval-project/the-owning-bi-polar-title-tra)
Title: Re: Frost* Forum Collab Song - the tech thread (TTT!)
Post by: MrBabou on November 19, 2010, 05:26:16 PM
Listening to version 8 now. It's my very first listen, and truthfully, I'm impressed. It's sounding pretty good  :D
Title: Re: Frost* Forum Collab Song - the tech thread (TTT!)
Post by: RWA on November 20, 2010, 10:25:24 AM
Quote from: "Jim Takacs"
I Wanna Play too!  See if you can find any of this of use!  I have Lots of songs like this..  I can Get you any part or parts or Stems in whatever format you want! :oops:
http://soundcloud.com/oval-project/the- ... -title-tra (http://soundcloud.com/oval-project/the-owning-bi-polar-title-tra)
I will listen to your tracks and see  if anything fits. You can also come up with something new of course. This is an ongoing thing and it might end up as a 30 minute epic for all I care!  :)
Title: Re: Frost* Forum Collab Song - the tech thread (TTT!)
Post by: Jim Takacs on November 20, 2010, 06:16:55 PM
Quote from: "RWA"
Quote from: "Jim Takacs"
I Wanna Play too!  See if you can find any of this of use!  I have Lots of songs like this..  I can Get you any part or parts or Stems in whatever format you want! :oops:
http://soundcloud.com/oval-project/the- ... -title-tra (http://soundcloud.com/oval-project/the-owning-bi-polar-title-tra)
I will listen to your tracks and see  if anything fits. You can also come up with something new of course. This is an ongoing thing and it might end up as a 30 minute epic for all I care!  :)
Cool, But I Just gotta say, There were a Few Moments in V. 8 Where the goose bumps were thinking about an appearance!! :D  This songs gonna be Killer when complete!
Title: Re: Frost* Forum Collab Song - the tech thread (TTT!)
Post by: RWA on November 22, 2010, 02:23:07 PM
Quote from: "Jim Takacs"
Quote from: "RWA"
Quote from: "Jim Takacs"
I Wanna Play too!  See if you can find any of this of use!  I have Lots of songs like this..  I can Get you any part or parts or Stems in whatever format you want! :oops:
http://soundcloud.com/oval-project/the- ... -title-tra (http://soundcloud.com/oval-project/the-owning-bi-polar-title-tra)
I will listen to your tracks and see  if anything fits. You can also come up with something new of course. This is an ongoing thing and it might end up as a 30 minute epic for all I care!  :)
Cool, But I Just gotta say, There were a Few Moments in V. 8 Where the goose bumps were thinking about an appearance!! :D  This songs gonna be Killer when complete!

I'm pretty sure I can something nice with 'Snowmans Son'. Can you give me the mp3 of that including the bpm's?
You can also PM me your e-mail address so I can add you to the project over at box.net. you can then upload it there.
Title: Re: Frost* Forum Collab Song - the tech thread (TTT!)
Post by: E.S. on November 28, 2010, 10:27:50 PM
This thingy is getting very cool. I like it  :D
Title: Re: Frost* Forum Collab Song - the tech thread (TTT!)
Post by: RWA on November 29, 2010, 08:38:08 AM
Quote from: "E.S."
This thingy is getting very cool. I like it  :D
Can you find the time to deliver your parts as individual wav files as they are used in the current version? That would be great.  :)
Title: Re: Frost* Forum Collab Song - the tech thread (TTT!)
Post by: E.S. on November 29, 2010, 04:58:29 PM
Did I send the files for my first bit? Can't even remember now.
The second, I'll simply re-record. I don't know where that project is.. it should be quick, plus it will sound better. New gear etc.. :)

I have officially become Jem. Too busy lately  :lol:
Title: Re: Frost* Forum Collab Song - the tech thread (TTT!)
Post by: RWA on November 30, 2010, 09:33:41 AM
Quote from: "E.S."
Did I send the files for my first bit? Can't even remember now.
The second, I'll simply re-record. I don't know where that project is.. it should be quick, plus it will sound better. New gear etc.. :)

I have officially become Jem. Too busy lately  :lol:
Yes you did send the parts for the first bit. But I still need the parts for your 'rock section' and for the end part (which is the short version of the first bit).
Title: Re: Frost* Forum Collab Song - the tech thread (TTT!)
Post by: RWA on December 15, 2010, 02:55:40 PM
FFCS version 9 (http://http://www.box.net/ffcs#/ffcs/1/60636980)

A fair part of Snowman' Son by Jim Takacs added. Including a transition part from me to get there.
Tell me what you think.
Title: Re: Frost* Forum Collab Song - the tech thread (TTT!)
Post by: Jim Takacs on December 15, 2010, 05:55:58 PM
Wow!  I Absolutely LOVE the Transition you did into my part! Im Honored to have contributed.  Thanks!
Title: Re: Frost* Forum Collab Song - the tech thread (TTT!)
Post by: Pedro on December 15, 2010, 11:27:57 PM
I love this development - very smoothly done and sounds great.
Title: Re: Frost* Forum Collab Song - the tech thread (TTT!)
Post by: RWA on December 16, 2010, 12:58:22 AM
Quote from: "Jim Takacs"
Wow!  I Absolutely LOVE the Transition you did into my part! Im Honored to have contributed.  Thanks!
I've dropped the pitch -1 btw to make it fit. Could you upload the individual parts of this in yer box.net folder?
Title: Re: Frost* Forum Collab Song - the tech thread (TTT!)
Post by: Jim Takacs on December 16, 2010, 02:43:20 AM
Quote from: "RWA"
Quote from: "Jim Takacs"
Wow!  I Absolutely LOVE the Transition you did into my part! Im Honored to have contributed.  Thanks!
I've dropped the pitch -1 btw to make it fit. Could you upload the individual parts of this in yer box.net folder?
I was Hoping you would Transpose it! I really like how you segwayed into it with that Key change to! That Added floor tom makes that 808 part!    I Lost a Magneto Optical SCSI, Yes SCSI drive tonight, cant remember what was on it since I have crap spread all over Misc. drives! I actually think I have this song saved to Floppy!! Ill Dig.  BTW, You have No Idea how fun it was just then to type that sentence out that included SCSI and Floppy!!  :lol:
Title: Re: Frost* Forum Collab Song - the tech thread (TTT!)
Post by: Jim Takacs on December 17, 2010, 04:57:49 PM
Ok, This sucks Ginormous Ass!!  Snowmans Son was in fact stored on a Magneto Optical disk.  Im searching Ebay right now! Aside from welovemacs.com, anyone know of a good site for older SCSI Stuff??  :evil:
Title: Re: Frost* Forum Collab Song - the tech thread (TTT!)
Post by: RWA on December 28, 2010, 11:43:12 PM
Quote from: "Jim Takacs"
Ok, This sucks Ginormous Ass!!  Snowmans Son was in fact stored on a Magneto Optical disk.  Im searching Ebay right now! Aside from welovemacs.com, anyone know of a good site for older SCSI Stuff??  :evil:
Try an enigma. I think they're categorized under 'garden supplies' on e-bay. This might be able to decode SCSI for you.

(http://http://technology.niagarac.on.ca/people/mcsele/images/enigma.jpg)
Title: Re: Frost* Forum Collab Song - the tech thread (TTT!)
Post by: Jim Takacs on December 31, 2010, 01:36:33 AM
LMFAO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!  No, Seriously, I am Now Ass-less!!  Guess you can just call me Patty from here on out!! :?
Title: Re: Frost* Forum Collab Song - the tech thread (TTT!)
Post by: RWA on January 05, 2011, 09:28:51 AM
Quote from: "Jim Takacs"
LMFAO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!  No, Seriously, I am Now Ass-less!!  Guess you can just call me Patty from here on out!! :?
Ok then. Does this mean you have no acces to the song anymore? If not, are you planning to re-record it?
Title: Re: Frost* Forum Collab Song - the tech thread (TTT!)
Post by: Jim Takacs on January 07, 2011, 04:13:34 AM
Yes..  I am Actually Re sequencing or should I say Re Learning what I wrote! SUCKS cuz due to my recent Divorce and Moving ALL that Damn Gear, Yeah I know poor me..  I Dont take it for granted But IT SUCKS ASS having to allocate it elsewhere, Im Not in the typical "creative" state of mind. But, this is Hugely important to me, So It IS #1 on the Priority list!!  Seriously!!    I Feel So Honored though to actually Contribute to such a Cool tribute to the Greatest Band EVAR!! 8-)  8-)   That Theramin part still blows my mind! So Hauntingly beautiful!
Title: Re: Frost* Forum Collab Song - the tech thread (TTT!)
Post by: RWA on January 07, 2011, 02:55:02 PM
No 1 priority?!  :?  It's not THAT important.  :lol:
But I appreciate the dedication!  :)
Title: Re: Frost* Forum Collab Song - the tech thread (TTT!)
Post by: Drarok on January 08, 2011, 02:58:10 AM
I dunno, man. The little (awful) parts I contributed were high priority to me, I hate letting people down. I'm hoping someone will add a piece that needs a real guitar based on their synth again as that was really good fun for me. I'm terrible at working stuff out by ear, but if I have the author to hand, I can manage it. And eventually popped out the other end with a piece written by someone else, but recorded by me.
Now, the chords were simple, but the timing was new to me, and therefore inspired.
That's the kind of collaboration I thrive on. One musician adding their piece, interpreted by another, recorded by a third... Makes it new an exciting!
Title: Re: Frost* Forum Collab Song - the tech thread (TTT!)
Post by: Pedro on January 08, 2011, 07:57:00 AM
I've got one or two other things on the go right now but I will be coming back to this.
On the flip-side of Drarok's view, I found it exhilarating to freestyle a whacky little riff on keys and then hear it coming back all grown up. :)
Title: Re: Frost* Forum Collab Song - the tech thread (TTT!)
Post by: RWA on January 08, 2011, 10:25:22 AM
Quote from: "Drarok"
I dunno, man. The little (awful) parts I contributed were high priority to me, I hate letting people down. I'm hoping someone will add a piece that needs a real guitar based on their synth again as that was really good fun for me. I'm terrible at working stuff out by ear, but if I have the author to hand, I can manage it. And eventually popped out the other end with a piece written by someone else, but recorded by me.
Now, the chords were simple, but the timing was new to me, and therefore inspired.
That's the kind of collaboration I thrive on. One musician adding their piece, interpreted by another, recorded by a third... Makes it new an exciting!
Understood. But why don't you start by re-recording some of the stuff you've got. Remember a lot of your stuff is used in the song but some of it just needs to be recorded a played a bit tighter. I've requested that a long time ago but it just doesn't happen.

The same goes for the bass parts done by MikeBass and Brodie. Most of it is delivered as (I quote) 'a bit sloppy, demo-like recorded, just to see if any of it fits'. Which is fine as long as it's not sure if the part will be used but a lot of it does fit and is being used but therefore needs to be re-done properly. Unfortunately that's were at least 50% of you fail to deliver like it's all to much work or something.  :(

It's really a shame because some great work was done in the first weeks by especially Pedro, Drarok and ES. But so far the only one who seems to understand how you keep something like this going is Pedro (hail Pedro!  :) ).
ES unfortunately is swamped with work so has no time to deliver any individual parts so it seems but as long as I don't get those I can't finish those parts of the song.

Then there are a lot members who signed up for this (SerFox, Catherine, Monument, David, Phrog, Brom, Flamadiddle, Bokkie, Gr8Gonzo, John_in_black) who never delivered anything. I understand it's impossible for everyone to come up with stuff but at least give it a shot. I mean, what's the point of signing up for this if you're not going to contribute at all?

Look, I don't want to turn this into something negative but I warned for this upfront. I've been clear about my intentions from the beginning and the basics of a project of this are very simple:

- upload anything that you think is worth checking and might fit in
- let one guy (that's me) decide what fits in or not (of course everyone is free to make suggestions that occasionally are WAY better then mine)
- to finish your contribution please deliver what I ask for: this can be a better and tighter recording of your contribution or (in may cases) just the individual tracks of what you recorded.
- don't be offended if something you delivered doesn't end up in the song or is edited here and there to make it fit. It's all part of the game.

That's really all there is to it folks. But please follow through. I'm still waiting for stuff I asked for months ago and honestly that's frustrating at times and it's the main reason I loose compassion for this. I've put a fair amount of time into this but I expect collaborators to do the same.

I would still love to finish this song because a lot of it is REALLY REALLY good but please put some time and effort into this and simply deliver something when you're asked, K?!  :)
Title: Re: Frost* Forum Collab Song - the tech thread (TTT!)
Post by: Drarok on January 09, 2011, 07:17:56 AM
Sorry chap, I've either not seen the post asking for better copies, or forgotten. I'll get on that later on today, don't think my neighbours would be too happy about me blasting out noise at 07:15! ;)

Listening to the latest version now to figure out which bits are included. Thanks for all your time and effort! :)
Title: Re: Frost* Forum Collab Song - the tech thread (TTT!)
Post by: Drarok on January 09, 2011, 11:15:32 AM
I've redone the two bits I recognised as "mine" and exported individual tracks, one file each. Let me know if there's any bits that aren't up to snuff. If they're usable then I'll start uploading uncompressed WAV files (although I may zip them to save on my poor bandwidth :cry:)
Title: Re: Frost* Forum Collab Song - the tech thread (TTT!)
Post by: RWA on January 09, 2011, 02:16:19 PM
Quote from: "Drarok"
I've redone the two bits I recognised as "mine" and exported individual tracks, one file each. Let me know if there's any bits that aren't up to snuff. If they're usable then I'll start uploading uncompressed WAV files (although I may zip them to save on my poor bandwidth :cry:)
Zip is just fine. But I'll first check out yer mp3 bits tomorrow, k?  :)
Title: Re: Frost* Forum Collab Song - the tech thread (TTT!)
Post by: E.S. on January 09, 2011, 03:05:37 PM
Getting my riff re-recorded very soon. That's the only way to do it. On the plus side, it will sound better.
Title: Re: Frost* Forum Collab Song - the tech thread (TTT!)
Post by: RWA on January 09, 2011, 03:48:21 PM
Quote from: "E.S."
Getting my riff re-recorded very soon. That's the only way to do it. On the plus side, it will sound better.
Excellent!  :)

- Make sure I end up with all individual parts of what you've contributed.
- Listen closely to the latest version to hear what is used and in what length.
- Make sure your final versions are of the highest quality you can provide; a specially performance wise.

That's what we need in a nutshell to keep this thing running and actually finish it one day!  :mrgreen:
Title: Re: Frost* Forum Collab Song - the tech thread (TTT!)
Post by: E.S. on January 09, 2011, 06:23:18 PM
At least sound wise. I'm not much of a guitar or bass player.

Was it 16 or 24 bits? Can't remember what it was.
Title: Re: Frost* Forum Collab Song - the tech thread (TTT!)
Post by: RWA on January 09, 2011, 06:25:40 PM
Quote from: "E.S."
At least sound wise. I'm not much of a guitar or bass player.

Was it 16 or 24 bits? Can't remember what it was.
Doesn't matter. As long as it's 44.1 KHz.

And in key.
And in the right tempo.
:mrgreen:
Title: Re: Frost* Forum Collab Song - the tech thread (TTT!)
Post by: E.S. on January 09, 2011, 06:26:08 PM
Oh, I don't know about that sort of thing.  :D
Title: Re: Frost* Forum Collab Song - the tech thread (TTT!)
Post by: RWA on January 10, 2011, 04:16:20 PM
Quote from: "RWA"
Quote from: "Drarok"
I've redone the two bits I recognised as "mine" and exported individual tracks, one file each. Let me know if there's any bits that aren't up to snuff. If they're usable then I'll start uploading uncompressed WAV files (although I may zip them to save on my poor bandwidth :cry:)
Zip is just fine. But I'll first check out yer mp3 bits tomorrow, k?  :)
Well, I'm sorry to say this Drarok but your older version(s) of the 'cruddy' section seem better in sync then the new ones. Please check your folder over at box.net. I've added 2 mp3's (the old version and the new one) and an image file of the new one. The red sections are played WAY to fast. Do you use a metronome while recording?

What you do is not uncommon; I've heard it many times before. If people go out of sync 90% of the times they go to fast. Like they loose track and start to speed up to make sure at least everything is played. The problem is you overtake yourself sometimes. A few seconds later you're back in tempo again but in the meantime you've lost a full count.

So a general advice to everyone; use a metronome and do your best to play in tempo. I can time stretch here and there but software can only do so much. Besides, solving the issue at the beginning (recording a good take instead of trying to fix a poor one) is way faster and always better.

BTW: this only goes for the 'cruddy' section. The 'rock' section is just fine.  :)
Title: Re: Frost* Forum Collab Song - the tech thread (TTT!)
Post by: RWA on January 13, 2011, 09:24:43 AM
Uhm..... does the silence mean I offended someone or are you all working really hard on your tracks right now?  :?

I hope it's not to much to ask that you all (try) to play the stuff in sync. I've spend 2 hours last week trying to sync the latest tracks, finding out it couldn't be done, analyzing the problem, creating and uploading an image file and 2 mp3's and a full explanation of what the problem is. Honestly ......... I have betters things to do then that and it shouldn't be necessary.

I'm willing to put my time and effort into this as long as you are too. So please, if a take isn't good, do it again. And again. Until it's right. And please audition your material before you upload it to see if everything is ok.

Thanks.  :)
Title: Re: Frost* Forum Collab Song - the tech thread (TTT!)
Post by: E.S. on January 14, 2011, 12:24:39 AM
Yes, I'm deeply offended, and shall have my revenge, in this life or the next.

 :mrgreen:

No, trying to record guitar, an instrument I can't play.. haven't practiced for ages. Slowly getting there, though. Bass works, but guitar is much harder. Can't get the groove right on this riff.
Title: Re: Frost* Forum Collab Song - the tech thread (TTT!)
Post by: Drarok on January 14, 2011, 01:10:48 AM
Quote from: "RWA"
Uhm..... does the silence mean I offended someone or are you all working really hard on your tracks right now?  :?
A little of both, I'd got quite disheartened by the comments on the box.net folder as they're emailed to me, but hadn't been back to the forum yet. Your post above is a bit kinder than the emails I got. :P

Quote
I hope it's not to much to ask that you all (try) to play the stuff in sync. I've spend 2 hours last week trying to sync the latest tracks, finding out it couldn't be done, analyzing the problem, creating and uploading an image file and 2 mp3's and a full explanation of what the problem is. [...] I'm willing to put my time and effort into this as long as you are too. So please, if a take isn't good, do it again. And again. Until it's right. And please audition your material before you upload it to see if everything is ok.

Thanks.  :)
I know it might not seem likely, but I did actually do loads and loads of takes of that section. All were recorded to a click track. That was probably my 1st mistake, I've never been too good at hearing the clicks, I tend to get along better with some drums bashing away in the background. I'll also blame part of my dreadful timing on being ill. ;)
Can I have a MIDI and/or MP3 of that section of the drum track please?
Title: Re: Frost* Forum Collab Song - the tech thread (TTT!)
Post by: E.S. on January 14, 2011, 01:59:53 AM
My tracks are uploading as I type this. I hope it works, and hope that you mangle it properly into something mad.  :D
Also added a brutal synth to it, just in case. You decide if it fits or not.

They are in the wav folder. One bar of silence first on all tracks except the drums. 150bpm.
Title: Re: Frost* Forum Collab Song - the tech thread (TTT!)
Post by: RWA on January 14, 2011, 10:25:39 AM
Quote from: "Drarok"
Quote from: "RWA"
Uhm..... does the silence mean I offended someone or are you all working really hard on your tracks right now?  :?
A little of both, I'd got quite disheartened by the comments on the box.net folder as they're emailed to me, but hadn't been back to the forum yet. Your post above is a bit kinder than the emails I got.
OK, my bad.  :|
The forum post was the full explanation of the problem; I should've included that in the mail. Wasn't even aware of the fact you got a mail; that's something box.net does automatically I guess when you mess around in someones folder. I assumed you keep an eye on this thread to keep up with the news.

Quote from: "Drarok"
I know it might not seem likely, but I did actually do loads and loads of takes of that section. All were recorded to a click track. That was probably my 1st mistake, I've never been too good at hearing the clicks, I tend to get along better with some drums bashing away in the background. I'll also blame part of my dreadful timing on being ill. ;)
Can I have a MIDI and/or MP3 of that section of the drum track please?
Fair enough. We'll do it again. Sometimes that's what it takes. I was a bit irritated by the lack of steady tempo in some of your tracks and wondered why someone doesn't hear it themselves. Some takes ended up being useless because of it and I reckon you could've figured that out yourself before upload. I do have to say the sound quality of your recordings is better; that's an improvement for sure.  :)  

I understand it's not nice to hear your work isn't good enough and you have to do it again. But I'm afraid it goes with the job. I don't expect people to make this their no 1 priority in life (it isn't mine either) but once I'm committed to something I tend to follow through. Believe me I know recording life can be a pain in the ass sometimes; you do and redo and redo again to end up throwing it all away to make something else the next day. Unfortunately that's the only way to accomplish things. Follow through, sucking up. When a coach takes you out of the game because your performance isn't good enough it sure ass hell sucks for the player but he/she has to accept the decision for the greater good. Being a coach isn't always fun either....  ;)

I know this project is supposed to be fun and overall it is..... but when you're part of it or want to be part of it please do the best you can.

Right! I will upload the drum track for you so you can work with that, k?  :)
Title: Re: Frost* Forum Collab Song - the tech thread (TTT!)
Post by: RWA on January 14, 2011, 10:27:22 AM
Quote from: "E.S."
My tracks are uploading as I type this. I hope it works, and hope that you mangle it properly into something mad.  :D
Also added a brutal synth to it, just in case. You decide if it fits or not.

They are in the wav folder. One bar of silence first on all tracks except the drums. 150bpm.
Thanks!  :)
Title: Re: Frost* Forum Collab Song - the tech thread (TTT!)
Post by: RWA on January 14, 2011, 01:23:39 PM
Drarok --> Drums for the cruddy section! (http://http://www.box.net/ffcs#ffcs/1/63582199/593883873/1)

give 'm hell!  8-)
Title: Re: Frost* Forum Collab Song - the tech thread (TTT!)
Post by: Jim Takacs on January 16, 2011, 05:07:37 AM
Excellent!!  Love Your ghost notes!  That China is so damn Fast too. Its almost like a "splash" China!! Killer Accent choice!
Title: Re: Frost* Forum Collab Song - the tech thread (TTT!)
Post by: E.S. on January 16, 2011, 02:59:28 PM
Sounds fab!
Title: Re: Frost* Forum Collab Song - the tech thread (TTT!)
Post by: Drarok on January 28, 2011, 01:03:21 PM
Was dreading coming back to this thread - I was out of action for a while, then had an insane couple weeks at work. Thought there might be some annoyed people waiting for me. :oops:
I'm more or less back up to speed now, so I shall get back into this soon!
Title: Re: Frost* Forum Collab Song - the tech thread (TTT!)
Post by: RWA on January 28, 2011, 02:09:25 PM
Quote from: "Drarok"
Was dreading coming back to this thread - I was out of action for a while, then had an insane couple weeks at work. Thought there might be some annoyed people waiting for me. :oops:
I'm more or less back up to speed now, so I shall get back into this soon!
WHERE THE HELL HAVE YOU BEEN YOUNG MAN?!?!?!?!?!?!  :evil:




Just kidding.  :mrgreen:

When ever you're ready. I hope you noticed I've put the isolated drum track in your folder over at box.net like you asked. Or should I say aksed? That's way cooler these days, huh?!  8-)

To sum it up: the main issues I addressed were:
- take your time but don't take months. It should be fair to deliver stuff within a few weeks to keep it going.
- do your best when you're recording and make sure it's in sync and in tune.

That's basically it.  Fair enough I like to think. As long as everyone follows those basic 'rules' we can keep it going and most of all --> keep it fun!  :)
Title: Re: Frost* Forum Collab Song - the tech thread (TTT!)
Post by: Drarok on January 28, 2011, 03:22:28 PM
Yeah, I got email notification of the isolated drum track - thanks. You can really hear the details on that!
Title: Re: Frost* Forum Collab Song - the tech thread (TTT!)
Post by: Drarok on February 19, 2011, 07:17:55 PM
Firstly, many apologies for the ridiculous amount of time it's taken for me to get back on here. I'll spare you the details... I managed to grab a couple hours with my guitar today, though. :)

Secondly, I think I may finally have this whole guitar-playing thing up to a vaguely non-awful level. I've updated my box.net folder with a re-re-recorded one, backed by the drum file (thanks, RWA), then the individual guitar parts are up there as MP3s. Hopefully I'm in time this... time.

How are we all doing? :)
Title: Re: Frost* Forum Collab Song - the tech thread (TTT!)
Post by: RWA on February 20, 2011, 07:58:04 PM
Got 'em. Will look/listen into it later this week.  :)
Title: Re: Frost* Forum Collab Song - the tech thread (TTT!)
Post by: RWA on March 15, 2011, 08:28:15 PM
FFCS version 10 (http://http://www.box.net/ffcs#/ffcs/1/74428490)

Includes new versions of ES_rock section and Drarok_cruddy section.

I've also added an attempt to end this song with a grand reprise section. This is still pretty raw and needs a lot of extra to make it big but I hope others will jump in for this. Tell me what you think of it.  :)
Title: Re: Frost* Forum Collab Song - the tech thread (TTT!)
Post by: Pedro on March 15, 2011, 08:33:27 PM
Ah, well done sir. Downloading now...will see/hear what I can do.
Title: Re: Frost* Forum Collab Song - the tech thread (TTT!)
Post by: Pedro on March 15, 2011, 10:51:34 PM
Hell's teeth, that's immense.  :o
So many great goose-bumpy moments.
Thanks for keeping the flame going, Ron. (and turning it into a veritable bonfire in fact!)

It's going to take a while but I'd hope to maybe thread some bits into the second half but it really doesn't sound in need of much in order to feel complete.

On thing I'm surprised we don't have yet is a bit of shreddy/widdly guitar over the 16 bars of riff that starts at 4:36.
Maybe just over the second 8 bars starting at 4:48. I can just hear a Mitchell-ese rinse going with that.
I know we have some axe men on here that could prolly do it.

It's suddenly quite relevant that we have the You/I vox in there and I love the return of it later on.
I think there's scope to work in some further references to the catalogue in other place sso I might try to approach that.

I think I picked out one or two places where the transitions between sections could be made a little more smooth but I shall need to get some less-tired ears from somewhere before starting to pick at detail like that.

Plenty of scope for a title, cover art, sleeve notes, etc. too.

Thanks again Ron.
Title: Re: Frost* Forum Collab Song - the tech thread (TTT!)
Post by: RWA on March 16, 2011, 06:03:34 AM
There is still plenty to work on; this version is still pretty raw IMO. And there's way to much 'Ron' in there IMO. So keep adding / altering stuff to make it better please. Some vox would be nice also. :)

Let's finish this in honor of Jem and Frost* goodness! We wouldn't be here without him!
Title: Re: Frost* Forum Collab Song - the tech thread (TTT!)
Post by: E.S. on March 16, 2011, 09:32:26 PM
That's what I was thinking too, let's do this thing for Jem. Hopefully he'll hear it some day, and see how much he inspired us.

I'd love to do some soloing there, I'll give it a try.  :D
Title: Re: Frost* Forum Collab Song - the tech thread (TTT!)
Post by: E.S. on March 16, 2011, 09:38:35 PM
Oh, and I'd love to do a Monotron track or two. I've also ordered a Stylophone, so maybe that too, whenever it arrives.
Title: Re: Frost* Forum Collab Song - the tech thread (TTT!)
Post by: David on March 16, 2011, 09:45:04 PM
Beautiful!
Thanks Ron.
I know I haven't been useful at all, but I'll try to play some guitar somewhere...
Quote from: "RWA"
Let's finish this in honor of Jem and Frost* goodness! We wouldn't be here without him!
Bien dit !
Title: Re: Frost* Forum Collab Song - the tech thread (TTT!)
Post by: Pedro on March 16, 2011, 10:02:38 PM
Quote from: "David"
Bien dit !
...like Beckham?
Title: Re: Frost* Forum Collab Song - the tech thread (TTT!)
Post by: E.S. on March 16, 2011, 10:39:21 PM
Btw, could you upload the tempo track for the project? Some tempo changes are pretty hard to sync manually.
Title: Re: Frost* Forum Collab Song - the tech thread (TTT!)
Post by: Pedro on March 21, 2011, 11:17:58 PM
I had a bit of spare tinker-time so I raided the stock of Jem-played midi data and shoe-horn-wangled another of his solos to fit over the reprise of the bit where his other solo went.

Link -> http://http://www.box.net/shared/yir3u5roqo

I'll wait for reaction before posting separate mp3/wav/midi/whatever.
It should be getting pretty clear that I can't make up a solo to save my life but I'll happily stand on the shoulders (fingers?) of giants! Perhaps it's a little sentimental to force even more Jem into this piece but I'm happy just to have proposed it, even if it doesn't get used in the end.

Right, I have a Sonar X1 patch to install! :)
Title: Re: Frost* Forum Collab Song - the tech thread (TTT!)
Post by: RWA on March 21, 2011, 11:30:47 PM
Quote from: "E.S."
Btw, could you upload the tempo track for the project? Some tempo changes are pretty hard to sync manually.
Oh yeah, forgot that one this time. Will do that tomorrow.  :)
Title: Re: Frost* Forum Collab Song - the tech thread (TTT!)
Post by: RWA on March 22, 2011, 12:10:12 AM
Quote from: "Pedro"
I had a bit of spare tinker-time so I raided the stock of Jem-played midi data and shoe-horn-wangled another of his solos to fit over the reprise of the bit where his other solo went.

Link -> http://http://www.box.net/shared/yir3u5roqo

I'll wait for reaction before posting separate mp3/wav/midi/whatever.
It should be getting pretty clear that I can't make up a solo to save my life but I'll happily stand on the shoulders (fingers?) of giants! Perhaps it's a little sentimental to force even more Jem into this piece but I'm happy just to have proposed it, even if it doesn't get used in the end.

Right, I have a Sonar X1 patch to install! :)
Nice.  :D
There is something to be said for putting more Jem into this indeed.
I wish I had more (isolated) vocals of him to put here and there....

But... I'm also eager to here some guitar shredding in the song. Not necessarily in this particular section but at least somewhere!

Oh, and can someone PLEASE put some pads/strings or mellotron (<------ !!!!!!) on top of the reprising Pedro sections; they only contain of Rhodes piano which is great for the intro but the other two reprises need bigger sounds. A specially the last one since it's the grand finale. Zaaaanks!  :mrgreen:
Title: Re: Frost* Forum Collab Song - the tech thread (TTT!)
Post by: E.S. on March 22, 2011, 02:51:29 AM
I'm only a keyboard shredder, but I'll try to do something, wherever it might fit.

And yes, I have a good idea for the reprise. I may even play a simple guitar lead, and a zillion Monotron tracks.  :)
Title: Re: Frost* Forum Collab Song - the tech thread (TTT!)
Post by: RWA on March 22, 2011, 03:54:02 AM
Quote from: "E.S."
I'm only a keyboard shredder, but I'll try to do something, wherever it might fit.

And yes, I have a good idea for the reprise. I may even play a simple guitar lead, and a zillion Monotron tracks.  :)
Make that a GAzillion!  ;)
Title: Re: Frost* Forum Collab Song - the tech thread (TTT!)
Post by: RWA on March 22, 2011, 03:03:19 PM
Quote from: "E.S."
Btw, could you upload the tempo track for the project? Some tempo changes are pretty hard to sync manually.
Uploaded in the usual folder!
Title: Re: Frost* Forum Collab Song - the tech thread (TTT!)
Post by: E.S. on March 22, 2011, 03:34:52 PM
Found it. Thanks. :)
Title: Re: Frost* Forum Collab Song - the tech thread (TTT!)
Post by: Againesis on March 22, 2011, 03:50:59 PM
Quote from: "RWA"
There is something to be said for putting more Jem into this indeed.
I wish I had more (isolated) vocals of him to put here and there....

I might be able to help with that - what're you after?
Title: Re: Frost* Forum Collab Song - the tech thread (TTT!)
Post by: RWA on March 22, 2011, 03:56:27 PM
Quote from: "Againesis"
Quote from: "RWA"
There is something to be said for putting more Jem into this indeed.
I wish I had more (isolated) vocals of him to put here and there....

I might be able to help with that - what're you after?
Anything really. You never know how stuff fits in. Like the scream of JM's vocal masterclass; it fits in perfectly.

Just let me know what you've got.  :)
Title: Re: Frost* Forum Collab Song - the tech thread (TTT!)
Post by: E.S. on March 22, 2011, 04:03:57 PM
I just uploaded a little vocal piece I did, as a suggestion. What do you think?
It's not really in my range, but when whispered like that, I think it might work.
Title: Re: Frost* Forum Collab Song - the tech thread (TTT!)
Post by: Pedro on March 22, 2011, 06:36:48 PM
Quote from: "E.S."
I just uploaded a little vocal piece I did, as a suggestion. What do you think?
It's not really in my range, but when whispered like that, I think it might work.
I like that sound, you sir have a good voice. :) Nice pre-echo too.
If I had to make a suggestion, I'd suggest maybe doing exactly what you've done - but possibly with some new/different words?
Title: Re: Frost* Forum Collab Song - the tech thread (TTT!)
Post by: RWA on March 22, 2011, 07:51:11 PM
Quote from: "E.S."
I just uploaded a little vocal piece I did, as a suggestion. What do you think?
It's not really in my range, but when whispered like that, I think it might work.
I love it! You have a great voice ES!  8-)
Title: Re: Frost* Forum Collab Song - the tech thread (TTT!)
Post by: E.S. on March 22, 2011, 08:00:46 PM
Wow... thanks.  :)
But other words... I'm not a lyricist at all, so in that case I would need help. I just play keyboards and sing backing vocals.  :P
Title: Re: Frost* Forum Collab Song - the tech thread (TTT!)
Post by: Drarok on March 22, 2011, 08:56:46 PM
Wow, that's really good. How do you do that pre-echo?!
Title: Re: Frost* Forum Collab Song - the tech thread (TTT!)
Post by: E.S. on March 22, 2011, 09:36:50 PM
I'm just cutting off a bit off the vocal, then moving it relative to the grid (or freehand in my case, as I seem to have trouble syncinc to the tempo track), then automating a filter sweep, panner and phaser to make that movement.
I just stole a couple of ideas from the original track, it has an insane amount of subtle vocal tricks. No wonder that record took a lot of time to make.  :shock:
Title: Re: Frost* Forum Collab Song - the tech thread (TTT!)
Post by: E.S. on March 24, 2011, 10:51:33 AM
Hooray! Stylophone arrived in the mail today, so I'll try to use that as well. :D
Title: Re: Frost* Forum Collab Song - the tech thread (TTT!)
Post by: E.S. on April 03, 2011, 06:21:58 AM
As for the proper proper recording, I won't be able to do it until I have a mic preamp. I've ordered one that's to be hand built, it'll be here in about a month. Proper high-end thingy.
My earlier recordings are just noisy low-level recordings directly into the interface, and that's not good enough. Not for me, at least.

The Monotron orchestra is done, I'll do some tweaks and upload it soon. I also broke all the Frost* rules and added a Mellotron choir to the whole thing.  :mrgreen:
Title: Re: Frost* Forum Collab Song - the tech thread (TTT!)
Post by: RWA on April 05, 2011, 02:58:30 PM
Can't wait to hear the result ES.  :)
Title: Re: Frost* Forum Collab Song - the tech thread (TTT!)
Post by: RWA on June 12, 2011, 09:53:56 AM
So... where does the finishing of the FFCS fit in you'll reckon?  ;)

(http://http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2420/5823410119_17a506f28b.jpg)
Title: Re: Frost* Forum Collab Song - the tech thread (TTT!)
Post by: Pedro on June 12, 2011, 10:23:28 AM
I'm keen to keep going with FFCS#1 but not able to spend time on it right now.
I guess people could think it's pretty much finished already?
Title: Re: Frost* Forum Collab Song - the tech thread (TTT!)
Post by: RWA on June 12, 2011, 10:38:08 AM
Quote from: "Pedro"
I'm keen to keep going with FFCS#1 but not able to spend time on it right now.
I guess people could think it's pretty much finished already?

Finished?  :?
There a lot of cut and paste going on in the current version. And I'm still waiting for addition stuff from Jim (redo of his part; at least that was his plan,right?) and E.S. (vocals, mellotron etc). And I hope Brodie is doing bass for this right now.
Title: Re: Frost* Forum Collab Song - the tech thread (TTT!)
Post by: Pedro on June 12, 2011, 01:10:10 PM
No, I know what you mean and I'm with you....just suggesting that from some angles some might see it as a crossword with a letter in every square, some in perfect ink, some just in rough pencil, but it looks (sounds) pretty much hole-free.
Glad you're keeping tabs on who's doing what....let's keep pushing to get it done really well. :)
Title: Re: Frost* Forum Collab Song - the tech thread (TTT!)
Post by: RWA on June 13, 2011, 11:21:04 AM
Quote from: "Pedro"
No, I know what you mean and I'm with you....just suggesting that from some angles some might see it as a crossword with a letter in every square, some in perfect ink, some just in rough pencil, but it looks (sounds) pretty much hole-free.
Glad you're keeping tabs on who's doing what....let's keep pushing to get it done really well. :)
I agree that the overall song arrangement is pretty much done. It sure is long enough!  ;)
Let's hope indeed everyone will deliver his/her part so it can be properly finished.

Anyone else besides E.S. up for some vox?!  :)
Title: Re: Frost* Forum Collab Song - the tech thread (TTT!)
Post by: E.S. on June 14, 2011, 09:28:13 AM
I haven't had a chance to do anything yet, because I'm still waiting for that bloody pre-amp. So yeah, I share your pain, waiting for others who never seem to get anything done.  :lol:

The pre-amp builder promised it will be done in 2 weeks from now. We'll see if that happens. Can't get a decent signal without one, sadly.

Also working on two albums and some very interesting projects. Let's just say that it involves a rockin' version of the ELO track "Twilight" with a great British singer.  :D

But you know, nothing official yet. We don't speak of such things openly.  ;)
Title: Re: Frost* Forum Collab Song - the tech thread (TTT!)
Post by: E.S. on July 03, 2011, 07:08:44 AM
Ok... now, if everything goes as planned, I'll do vox this week, plus a bleep or two from some of my little toys, and I have an idea for a lead. We'll see what happens.
I really should spend every day working hard, but all work and no play makes me a dull boy. It's not fun to be too prepared for a gig either.  :D
Title: Re: Frost* Forum Collab Song - the tech thread (TTT!)
Post by: E.S. on July 07, 2011, 12:59:16 AM
Done. The snowman vocal part, that is. Uploading as we speak.
PS: I had to make split RAR files. I have no tempo to sync to, so I just had to export the whole thing, and even as a compressed archive, it's pretty big.
Hope this works, I have a nasty cold.
Title: Re: Frost* Forum Collab Song - the tech thread (TTT!)
Post by: RWA on July 07, 2011, 07:04:44 AM
Thanks ES!
Downloading the stuff; will look at it this weekend.  :)
Title: Re: Frost* Forum Collab Song - the tech thread (TTT!)
Post by: RWA on July 09, 2011, 11:15:37 AM
Quote from: "E.S."
Done. The snowman vocal part, that is. Uploading as we speak.
PS: I had to make split RAR files. I have no tempo to sync to, so I just had to export the whole thing, and even as a compressed archive, it's pretty big.
Hope this works, I have a nasty cold.
It works all right...... and it's bloody brilliant ES! Well done!  :D

Just for my understanding though; what's the difference between part 1, 2 and 3? They all seems to be the same file.
Perhaps you mend to export the individual layers but all files contain the same multi layered mix. Not a big problem or anything (because it's mixed just fine) but just so I know what's going on.  :)
Title: Re: Frost* Forum Collab Song - the tech thread (TTT!)
Post by: E.S. on July 09, 2011, 06:43:17 PM
Wow, thanks. :)

Yes, they contain the same file, but it had to be split in 3, because I couldn't upload files bigger than 25MB on Box, for some reason. You only need to open one, and it automatically detects the others.

I'm gonna do some more keys too, and see if anything fits. Hopefully early next week.
Title: Re: Frost* Forum Collab Song - the tech thread (TTT!)
Post by: Drarok on July 10, 2011, 11:50:36 PM
Just having a listen now. Opened the last full track, started playing the E.S. file at the same time as the FFCS MP3, as I don't have enough room on my laptop for Logic. :x

Will report back...

What bits are left over to be done? Wonder if I might help bump this along a bit...
Title: Re: Frost* Forum Collab Song - the tech thread (TTT!)
Post by: Drarok on July 10, 2011, 11:58:23 PM
Whoa, how many layers is that, E.S.?

Love the pre-echo and glitch end.
Title: Re: Frost* Forum Collab Song - the tech thread (TTT!)
Post by: E.S. on July 11, 2011, 05:22:00 AM
It's just 4 tracks, doubled with a vocoder an octave up, if I remember correctly. Some kind of solina string patch.
Some vocoding and strange things on the lead too.
Title: Re: Frost* Forum Collab Song - the tech thread (TTT!)
Post by: RWA on July 11, 2011, 09:39:05 AM
Quote from: "Drarok"
What bits are left over to be done? Wonder if I might help bump this along a bit...
I'm hoping Brodie is doing bass right now.
Other then that, let's see what ES is coming up with this week. After that I'll do a new mix to see what needs to be done to finish this thing.  :)
Title: Re: Frost* Forum Collab Song - the tech thread (TTT!)
Post by: RacingHippo on July 14, 2011, 12:23:29 PM
I can add triangle.
And I have some sleigh bells, too.
Title: Re: Frost* Forum Collab Song - the tech thread (TTT!)
Post by: E.S. on July 14, 2011, 02:12:40 PM
Cowbell?  8-)


I just did another vocal bit, to finish off the Snowman thing at the end. Could that work?
Might have gone a little mad with automation, but hey.. tons of sub-sonic shit is always fun.  :mrgreen:

http://www.box.net/files#/files/0/f/487 ... _820294874 (http://www.box.net/files#/files/0/f/48702552/1/f_820294874)
Title: Re: Frost* Forum Collab Song - the tech thread (TTT!)
Post by: RWA on July 14, 2011, 02:41:33 PM
Quote from: "E.S."
I just did another vocal bit, to finish off the Snowman thing at the end. Could that work?
Might have gone a little mad with automation, but hey.. tons of sub-sonic shit is always fun.  :mrgreen:

http://www.box.net/files#/files/0/f/487 ... _820294874 (http://www.box.net/files#/files/0/f/48702552/1/f_820294874)
That's brilliant! :)
Why don't you do vox for the entire FFCS!  8-)
Title: Re: Frost* Forum Collab Song - the tech thread (TTT!)
Post by: E.S. on July 14, 2011, 05:53:37 PM
If there are any other parts, then sure.  :)
Title: Re: Frost* Forum Collab Song - the tech thread (TTT!)
Post by: sawtooth on July 20, 2011, 01:01:37 PM
Is there anywhere us non-collaborators can hear the latest version?
Title: Re: Frost* Forum Collab Song - the tech thread (TTT!)
Post by: RWA on July 20, 2011, 07:19:54 PM
Quote from: "sawtooth"
Is there anywhere us non-collaborators can hear the latest version?
http://http://box.net/ffcs

Version 10 doesn't have the ES vocals yet.
Title: Re: Frost* Forum Collab Song - the tech thread (TTT!)
Post by: sawtooth on July 21, 2011, 12:21:31 PM
Quote from: "RWA"
Quote from: "sawtooth"
Is there anywhere us non-collaborators can hear the latest version?
http://http://box.net/ffcs

Version 10 doesn't have the ES vocals yet.

Stunning work so far guys and gals, and I'm very much looking forward to hearing the finished track! It's nice to trawl through the contributors files and hear the individual additions too.
Title: Re: Frost* Forum Collab Song - the tech thread (TTT!)
Post by: Pedro on July 21, 2011, 07:39:56 PM
"Gals"? We did have one reported gal sighting on the project but she turned out to have an impressive Ginger tash!
It would be cool to get some more people involved. Perhaps if we do another project?
Title: Re: Frost* Forum Collab Song - the tech thread (TTT!)
Post by: Mouse on July 24, 2011, 01:05:39 PM
I am so out of touch with this! I need to have a listen to the latest version...
Title: Re: Frost* Forum Collab Song - the tech thread (TTT!)
Post by: E.S. on July 25, 2011, 11:31:53 PM
Stuff is coming later. I've been busy doing pop stuff, and frankly, the events of the weekend have been too painful to focus on more music.
Title: Re: Frost* Forum Collab Song - the tech thread (TTT!)
Post by: Pedro on July 26, 2011, 12:18:19 AM
Quite right, priorities and all that.
Title: Re: Frost* Forum Collab Song - the tech thread (TTT!)
Post by: rogerg on July 26, 2011, 02:24:54 AM
no worries, Espen.  my thoughts are with you.
Title: Re: Frost* Forum Collab Song - the tech thread (TTT!)
Post by: E.S. on July 27, 2011, 11:44:38 PM
Thank you.
Not much to say, really... I don't think this bastard deserves a thread on this happy forum. Too many disturbing images have been spread all over the web. I recommend you don't look at some of the videos, there are some things that should not have been published.

Ok, trying to get back to normal life.
I have to finish a editing job for a pop production thing I'm part of, and it has to happen this week. Mixing is on Sunday at a proper proper studio, for once. Outboard gear and all.
And next Tuesday I'm having myself a vacation, so I won't have Internet access or anything. About bloody time, frankly.
So yes, I guess nothing will happen until I'm back, unless I get some available time this weekend. I have multiple projects going on, so any time off is usually for anything but music.

What I have planned is to upload the final vocal bit (if it's good enough to use), and to do the Monotron/Stylophone orchestra, plus a shreddy solo somewhere.. I don't know where yet.
Title: Re: Frost* Forum Collab Song - the tech thread (TTT!)
Post by: RWA on July 28, 2011, 09:18:21 PM
Quote from: "E.S."
What I have planned is to upload the final vocal bit (if it's good enough to use), and to do the Monotron/Stylophone orchestra, plus a shreddy solo somewhere.. I don't know where yet.
Sounds fine to me!  :)
Enjoy your holiday!
Title: Re: Frost* Forum Collab Song - the tech thread (TTT!)
Post by: RWA on September 18, 2011, 10:36:55 PM
The only news so far I have on the FFCS is that Brodie (much to his regret) doesn't have time to do any bass on this. So is there a bass player over here who's willing to give it a try?  :)
Title: Re: Frost* Forum Collab Song - the tech thread (TTT!)
Post by: johninblack on September 19, 2011, 09:16:08 PM
I might now have the kit I need to be able to give it a go, I'll have a try.
Title: Re: Frost* Forum Collab Song - the tech thread (TTT!)
Post by: RWA on September 23, 2011, 08:59:23 AM
Quote from: "johninblack"
I might now have the kit I need to be able to give it a go, I'll have a try.
Excellent!  :mrgreen:
Title: Re: Frost* Forum Collab Song - the tech thread (TTT!)
Post by: E.S. on September 23, 2011, 04:58:36 PM
Sorry sorry sorry... I know it's annoying, but I'm gonna re-sing my stuff. I have infinitely better sound now, and I could do a better job singing. It's a bit below my register, but it kinda works when I do it quietly like that. This time I have a mic that can handle it.
Title: Re: Frost* Forum Collab Song - the tech thread (TTT!)
Post by: RWA on September 24, 2011, 03:00:35 PM
Quote from: "E.S."
Sorry sorry sorry... I know it's annoying, but I'm gonna re-sing my stuff. I have infinitely better sound now, and I could do a better job singing. It's a bit below my register, but it kinda works when I do it quietly like that. This time I have a mic that can handle it.
It's ok it's ok it's ok.  :)

If memory serves me well .............. didn't you also do some keyboard work on last section of FFCS?
Title: Re: Frost* Forum Collab Song - the tech thread (TTT!)
Post by: E.S. on September 24, 2011, 03:03:47 PM
Yes, about 20 Monotron tracks, pads, lots of stuff.
Title: Re: Frost* Forum Collab Song - the tech thread (TTT!)
Post by: RWA on September 24, 2011, 04:12:57 PM
Quote from: "E.S."
Yes, about 20 Monotron tracks, pads, lots of stuff.
8-)

Upload whenever you're ready. If JIB does bass this epic is starting to come together nicely.
Title: Re: Frost* Forum Collab Song - the tech thread (TTT!)
Post by: Drarok on September 24, 2011, 08:01:50 PM
I had a go at the bass last night. Unfortunately a combination of copious amounts of beer and not knowing the notes produced an awful mess. :lol:
Best of luck, all!
Title: Re: Frost* Forum Collab Song - the tech thread (TTT!)
Post by: Pedro on September 25, 2011, 01:17:21 AM
Hmm....Son of Pedro's bass is upstairs....and the Trillian VST is just sitting there....but it's late....and I'm knackered!  :)
Title: Re: Frost* Forum Collab Song - the tech thread (TTT!)
Post by: Mikey on September 25, 2011, 06:36:11 AM
Quote from: "Pedro"
Hmm....Son of Pedro's bass is upstairs....and the Trillian VST is just sitting there....but it's late....and I'm knackered!  :)
Go on.......you know you want to :twisted:
Title: Re: Frost* Forum Collab Song - the tech thread (TTT!)
Post by: johninblack on September 25, 2011, 09:23:53 AM
I'll get learning the parts, and decide which bass to use where.........
Title: Re: Frost* Forum Collab Song - the tech thread (TTT!)
Post by: E.S. on September 27, 2011, 01:07:40 AM
First part of the vox coming up now. A bit better this time, I didn't have to remove a shitload of noise.
As before, I never managed to fit a tempo track into it, so I have no grid to work with. You just have to insert it at exactly 8.29 seconds, at least that's the point it syncs to in FFCS10. Tempo tracks may screw up, but time doesn't. :)

The rest is coming later. I have trouble getting down there, it only works early in the morning. And of course, there's sound design and vocoding to do. Might have gone a little overboard with that on this take, but whatever... so did Jem on the original track.  :lol:
Title: Re: Frost* Forum Collab Song - the tech thread (TTT!)
Post by: RWA on September 27, 2011, 01:26:10 PM
Quote from: "E.S."
First part of the vox coming up now.
Got it! Will have a look/listen this weekend and fit it into the FFCS.
Title: Re: Frost* Forum Collab Song - the tech thread (TTT!)
Post by: RacingHippo on September 28, 2011, 02:03:51 PM
Quote from: "E.S."
I have trouble getting down there, it only works early in the morning.
I can do singey things if required. My range goes down to a bottom E.... not sure what the ceiling is; depends how anti-social I'm feeling  :mrgreen:

I was pondering some bongo-ing, too. Especially in that first fast bit (1 minute in).
Title: Re: Frost* Forum Collab Song - the tech thread (TTT!)
Post by: johninblack on September 28, 2011, 11:45:49 PM
Been getting on with learning the song and coming up with suitable parts, so far decided the 5 string will see a fair bit of this but I've also got a 4 string Wesley (Absolutely amazed at the build quality and sound from this thing, set up and ready to play out of the box for £110, ok it's not a Fender/Rickenbacker but for that money it's incredible value) that will see it's recording debut. Hope to have something to post in a week or so.......
Title: Re: Frost* Forum Collab Song - the tech thread (TTT!)
Post by: E.S. on September 29, 2011, 01:10:35 PM
Quote from: "RacingHippo"
Quote from: "E.S."
I have trouble getting down there, it only works early in the morning.
I can do singey things if required. My range goes down to a bottom E.... not sure what the ceiling is; depends how anti-social I'm feeling  :mrgreen:

I was pondering some bongo-ing, too. Especially in that first fast bit (1 minute in).
Holy Moses on a skateboard! :o  I can't control my pitch down there. I go up to a high D (or nearby) on a good day.
Title: Re: Frost* Forum Collab Song - the tech thread (TTT!)
Post by: RacingHippo on September 29, 2011, 01:37:45 PM
I used to sing 2nd bass in choral stuff - Madrigals, 15th C masses, that kinda thing.
Back then I could hit a bottom C, but that just makes me collapse in a fit of coughing now  :oops:
Mind you, after a few glasses of red wine the previous night.....
Title: Re: Frost* Forum Collab Song - the tech thread (TTT!)
Post by: E.S. on September 29, 2011, 02:42:29 PM
Time for a trip down to the cellar then.  :mrgreen:


I uploaded the vocoder bit now, to be synced up at 8:55. I basically tuned myself to death, then it worked just fine.
Title: Re: Frost* Forum Collab Song - the tech thread (TTT!)
Post by: RWA on September 30, 2011, 09:38:26 AM
RacingHippo:
some bongo-ing in the intro sounds great to me. Please do!
Not sure if you're able to record drums but if you can it would be great to have another drummer do some parts. So far I've done all the drums to keep the track going but for all I care only the drums for my own part stay. There are a lot of sections in this song so there room enough for multiple drummers.

And it's great to hear another singer stepping up. ES is doing an excellent job without doubt but this is a 15 minute track and most is still instrumental. So and extra singer is VERY welcome. :)

JohnInBlack:
Happy to hear your so dedicated to doing bass on this. Use all the basses you want, there are a lot of different sections in this song. Good luck nailing the tracks.  :)

E.S.
Thanks for all the work so far. I'll find some time this weekend to insert your new vocal parts.
I would also loooovvve to get my hands on all the extra keyboard stuff you did.........  8-)

Overall I'm very happy to see this project alive again!  :mrgreen:
Title: Re: Frost* Forum Collab Song - the tech thread (TTT!)
Post by: RWA on October 03, 2011, 02:04:07 PM
Uploaded is version 11 incl. ES vox.
There's also a version 11 'bassless'. Without bass obviously so JIB can do his bit.  :)

http://http://www.box.net/ffcs#/ffcs/1/120484171
Title: Re: Frost* Forum Collab Song - the tech thread (TTT!)
Post by: RacingHippo on October 03, 2011, 02:23:13 PM
Quote from: "RWA"
RacingHippo:
some bongo-ing in the intro sounds great to me. Please do!
Right you are! I'll do that sometime this week.

Quote from: "RWA"
Not sure if you're able to record drums but if you can it would be great to have another drummer do some parts.
I'd love to, actually. But I can only supply old-fashioned analogue drums as I can't afford one of those fancy-schmancy electronic kits!

Quote from: "RWA"
And it's great to hear another singer stepping up. ES is doing an excellent job without doubt but this is a 15 minute track and most is still instrumental. So and extra singer is VERY welcome. :)
Where do the singey bits go anyway? And are there lyrics?? I'm a bit late to the party, sorry....
Title: Re: Frost* Forum Collab Song - the tech thread (TTT!)
Post by: RWA on October 03, 2011, 02:33:40 PM
Quote from: "RacingHippo"
Quote from: "RWA"
RacingHippo:
some bongo-ing in the intro sounds great to me. Please do!
Right you are! I'll do that sometime this week.

Quote from: "RWA"
Not sure if you're able to record drums but if you can it would be great to have another drummer do some parts.
I'd love to, actually. But I can only supply old-fashioned analogue drums as I can't afford one of those fancy-schmancy electronic kits!

Quote from: "RWA"
And it's great to hear another singer stepping up. ES is doing an excellent job without doubt but this is a 15 minute track and most is still instrumental. So and extra singer is VERY welcome. :)
Where do the singey bits go anyway? And are there lyrics?? I'm a bit late to the party, sorry....

Nothing wrong with recording analog drums.
Would it help if I also uploaded a drum-less version of FFCS?

There are not much singey bits yet other then Jem's bits (which we stole!) and the ones ES did. So there is plenty of room for vox.
Title: Re: Frost* Forum Collab Song - the tech thread (TTT!)
Post by: E.S. on October 03, 2011, 03:55:56 PM
I can't remember if I sent the ending of the song, did I? If I did, that's a long time ago. I like it the way it is, even if the new gear makes everything sound better. Doesn't matter for a lo-fi part.

If only this place was a bit more soundproof, I'd do proper vox too.
Title: Re: Frost* Forum Collab Song - the tech thread (TTT!)
Post by: Pedro on October 03, 2011, 07:54:11 PM
I think Catherine had some vox ideas, as did L33VEY.
IIRC I think both had recording difficulties.

I want to persuade a competent guitarist (avec mucho widdle-ability) to do a bit of a rinse a one particular spot.
I just don't know how to describe what I have in mind! :)
Title: Re: Frost* Forum Collab Song - the tech thread (TTT!)
Post by: johninblack on October 03, 2011, 08:27:47 PM
Quote from: "Pedro"
I just don't know how to describe what I have in mind! :)
With what goes on in your mind is that any surprise at all?  :twisted:  :lol:  :twisted:  :lol:  :mrgreen:
Title: Re: Frost* Forum Collab Song - the tech thread (TTT!)
Post by: L33VEY on October 03, 2011, 08:42:10 PM
Quote from: "Pedro"
I think Catherine had some vox ideas, as did L33VEY.
IIRC I think both had recording difficulties.

plus I can't sing!

Version 11 sounds good btw
Title: Re: Frost* Forum Collab Song - the tech thread (TTT!)
Post by: RacingHippo on October 03, 2011, 10:14:14 PM
Quote from: "RWA"
Nothing wrong with recording analog drums.
Would it help if I also uploaded a drum-less version of FFCS?
Actualy, yes - just leave in the bits you definitely want to keep.
I'll see if I can dust off some mics. Although it won't be this week - too much work and wife-birthday happening!
Title: Re: Frost* Forum Collab Song - the tech thread (TTT!)
Post by: RWA on October 03, 2011, 11:08:16 PM
Quote from: "E.S."
I can't remember if I sent the ending of the song, did I? If I did, that's a long time ago. I like it the way it is, even if the new gear makes everything sound better. Doesn't matter for a lo-fi part.

If only this place was a bit more soundproof, I'd do proper vox too.
I remember you did key parts for the ending but I only heard the mp3 of that. I didn't get the individual parts of that yet.
Title: Re: Frost* Forum Collab Song - the tech thread (TTT!)
Post by: RWA on October 03, 2011, 11:10:05 PM
Quote from: "RacingHippo"
Quote from: "RWA"
Nothing wrong with recording analog drums.
Would it help if I also uploaded a drum-less version of FFCS?
Actualy, yes - just leave in the bits you definitely want to keep.
I'll see if I can dust off some mics. Although it won't be this week - too much work and wife-birthday happening!
Will do! No rush, this thing has been up in the air for a while now... so take yer time.
I'll upload a drumless version this week.  :)
Title: Re: Frost* Forum Collab Song - the tech thread (TTT!)
Post by: Pedro on October 03, 2011, 11:15:18 PM
Quote from: "RWA"
Quote from: "RacingHippo"
Quote from: "RWA"
Nothing wrong with recording analog drums.
Would it help if I also uploaded a drum-less version of FFCS?
Actualy, yes - just leave in the bits you definitely want to keep.
I'll see if I can dust off some mics. Although it won't be this week - too much work and wife-birthday happening!
Will do! No rush, this thing has been up in the air for a while now... so take yer time.
I'll upload a drumless version this week.  :)
With a click or not?
Title: Re: Frost* Forum Collab Song - the tech thread (TTT!)
Post by: RWA on October 04, 2011, 07:23:28 AM
Quote from: "Pedro"
Quote from: "RWA"
Quote from: "RacingHippo"
Quote from: "RWA"
Nothing wrong with recording analog drums.
Would it help if I also uploaded a drum-less version of FFCS?
Actualy, yes - just leave in the bits you definitely want to keep.
I'll see if I can dust off some mics. Although it won't be this week - too much work and wife-birthday happening!
Will do! No rush, this thing has been up in the air for a while now... so take yer time.
I'll upload a drumless version this week.  :)
With a click or not?
You could use the tempo track but that obviously only works if you import it into your host software.
I'll do a version with a click track also. And a salt-free and fat-free version just in case!  ;)
Title: Re: Frost* Forum Collab Song - the tech thread (TTT!)
Post by: E.S. on October 04, 2011, 08:26:27 AM
New tracks uploading now. The Monotron orchestra, a Mellotron/Monotron/Stylophone lo-fi pad, and an optional lead I did for the same section. Properly epic, I'd say.  8-)
Time code, as always: 13.08.
Title: Re: Frost* Forum Collab Song - the tech thread (TTT!)
Post by: RWA on October 04, 2011, 12:16:44 PM
Quote from: "E.S."
New tracks uploading now. The Monotron orchestra, a Mellotron/Monotron/Stylophone lo-fi pad, and an optional lead I did for the same section. Properly epic, I'd say.  8-)
Time code, as always: 13.08.
Excellent! Thanks for all the goodness you talented bastard!  :mrgreen:

I have included it in version 12 (to be uploaded tonight) and I used the pads and Lead early in the song as well.

I will mixdown:
- a full version
- a drum-less version
- a drum-less version + click track

One question Espen! How does one include the (metronome) click track into a mixdown in Cubase (5)?! I never needed it to export so I never done it and can't figure out how to do this. Do you (as fellow Cubase user) know how to do this?
Title: Re: Frost* Forum Collab Song - the tech thread (TTT!)
Post by: Pedro on October 04, 2011, 12:40:58 PM
It's fairly easy to make a click track from scratch of course but in Sonar (great help, I know!) the metronome is a separate channel in the mixer view and I think I can change the routing for the output of the metronome channel...but I've never tried. No clue about Cubase...so I guess I'm just stealing air here... ;)
Title: Re: Frost* Forum Collab Song - the tech thread (TTT!)
Post by: Drarok on October 04, 2011, 01:31:33 PM
Quote from: "Pedro"
I want to persuade a competent guitarist (avec mucho widdle-ability) to do a bit of a rinse a one particular spot.
I just don't know how to describe what I have in mind! :)
Could you outline a gist using MIDI, perhaps? I have plenty of widdle in me (oo-er) once I warm up the old fingers and run my recordings through time-stretching algorithms! ¨_¨
Title: Re: Frost* Forum Collab Song - the tech thread (TTT!)
Post by: Pedro on October 04, 2011, 01:35:14 PM
LOL
I'll give it a try...
Title: Re: Frost* Forum Collab Song - the tech thread (TTT!)
Post by: Drarok on October 04, 2011, 01:38:19 PM
Does MIDI not go fast enough for what you had in mind? :o
Title: Re: Frost* Forum Collab Song - the tech thread (TTT!)
Post by: RWA on October 04, 2011, 04:37:27 PM
Quote from: "Pedro"
It's fairly easy to make a click track from scratch of course but in Sonar (great help, I know!) the metronome is a separate channel in the mixer view and I think I can change the routing for the output of the metronome channel...but I've never tried. No clue about Cubase...so I guess I'm just stealing air here... ;)
I could create a midi track with a basic drum rhythm but I assume it should be possible to export the build in click track.
I did found this http://http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zZ-s7tDDrLc&feature=related but it seems unnecessarily complicated.....    :?
Title: Re: Frost* Forum Collab Song - the tech thread (TTT!)
Post by: Pedro on October 04, 2011, 09:19:31 PM
Quote from: "Drarok"
Does MIDI not go fast enough for what you had in mind? :o
LOL
I was more remembering previous attempts to "paint" shreddy guitar solos in the piano roll....
Title: Re: Frost* Forum Collab Song - the tech thread (TTT!)
Post by: Pedro on October 04, 2011, 10:13:40 PM
@Ron: What is the current thinking about the tweak of Jem's BLM solo that I reworked to fit in at about 12:28 of version 10. http://http://www.box.net/shared/yir3u5roqo
Will you still use it?
Don't think I ever supplied a midi for it...?
Title: Re: Frost* Forum Collab Song - the tech thread (TTT!)
Post by: RWA on October 05, 2011, 12:46:31 AM
Quote from: "Pedro"
@Ron: What is the current thinking about the tweak of Jem's BLM solo that I reworked to fit in at about 12:28 of version 10. http://http://www.box.net/shared/yir3u5roqo
Will you still use it?
Don't think I ever supplied a midi for it...?
First time I hear this! I think.....  :?
But it might work indeed so please provide the midi for that.  :)
Title: Re: Frost* Forum Collab Song - the tech thread (TTT!)
Post by: RWA on October 05, 2011, 01:16:28 AM
Walking the dog always gives me time to think.
He're one:
what if eventually everyone who participates in the FFCS shoots vids performing their contribution and "we" make a nice video of it?! I say "we" because (although I could put something like that together) I have my hands full putting the actual song  together AND there are some (Pedro?!) who are way more skilled in putting something like this together.

I know, let's first finish the song itself...... but ......wouldn't that be the dogs bullocks?!  :shock:
Title: Re: Frost* Forum Collab Song - the tech thread (TTT!)
Post by: rogerg on October 05, 2011, 01:52:02 AM
well, since my contribution has been one measure of arpeggio, I think this sounds like a great idea!

;)

heh


seriously, it's a cool idea!   8-)
Title: Re: Frost* Forum Collab Song - the tech thread (TTT!)
Post by: RWA on October 05, 2011, 06:53:29 AM
Quote from: "rogerg"
well, since my contribution has been one measure of arpeggio, I think this sounds like a great idea!

;)

heh


seriously, it's a cool idea!   8-)
Location! It's all about location! It might be a 4 seconds clip but ........... what if you shoot it on top of the Kilimanjaro?! Holding a big inflatable banana?!  ;)
Title: Re: Frost* Forum Collab Song - the tech thread (TTT!)
Post by: E.S. on October 05, 2011, 10:08:17 AM
Quote from: "RWA"
One question Espen! How does one include the (metronome) click track into a mixdown in Cubase (5)?! I never needed it to export so I never done it and can't figure out how to do this. Do you (as fellow Cubase user) know how to do this?
You know what? It can't be done, simple as that. I searched all over the web for this, but no, there's no way. I can't believe that the Steinberg folks never thought of something as basic as that.
I always make my own clicks with a drum machine if I need to export something. Very annoying.
Title: Re: Frost* Forum Collab Song - the tech thread (TTT!)
Post by: E.S. on October 05, 2011, 10:11:45 AM
Oh, and video sounds cool. Too bad it can't be an actual video song, because the parts are already recorded.. but I could try to get some stuff recorded. I don't know anything about video editing though, nor do I have software for it, so it'll just be raw files to be synced up to the track.

When I think of it, I don't have a camera either, just a crappy webcam.
Title: Re: Frost* Forum Collab Song - the tech thread (TTT!)
Post by: Pedro on October 05, 2011, 12:31:23 PM
Quote from: "RWA"
Quote from: "Pedro"
@Ron: What is the current thinking about the tweak of Jem's BLM solo that I reworked to fit in at about 12:28 of version 10. http://http://www.box.net/shared/yir3u5roqo
Will you still use it?
Don't think I ever supplied a midi for it...?
First time I hear this! I think.....  :?
But it might work indeed so please provide the midi for that.  :)
Will do. I posted the WAV on The Box yonks ago, maybe I thought the notifications would be enough to alert you(?). I wonder if I did that with anything else? (pretty sure I slaughtered the BM guitar solo too) I'll have a look tonight.

As for video, yeah it's a good idea. It'll take a lot of material to fill a track this long (so far!) but it could be done (maybe if we do a radio edit!). I could also film myself recording one of my contributions....but who needs to see some bloke just clicking a mouse? :)
Title: Re: Frost* Forum Collab Song - the tech thread (TTT!)
Post by: Drarok on October 05, 2011, 01:26:11 PM
I like the video idea. I may have to relearn my parts, though. :lol:

4-way split-screen with two recordings of me playing the rhythm and lead parts, the bassist, and drummer? ;)
Title: Re: Frost* Forum Collab Song - the tech thread (TTT!)
Post by: RWA on October 05, 2011, 03:26:27 PM
Quote from: "E.S."
Quote from: "RWA"
One question Espen! How does one include the (metronome) click track into a mixdown in Cubase (5)?! I never needed it to export so I never done it and can't figure out how to do this. Do you (as fellow Cubase user) know how to do this?
You know what? It can't be done, simple as that. I searched all over the web for this, but no, there's no way. I can't believe that the Steinberg folks never thought of something as basic as that.
I always make my own clicks with a drum machine if I need to export something. Very annoying.
Pretty stupid huh?! Seems Sonar makes more sense when it comes this this.  :?
Oh well, I'll create a 2 tone drum track instead. I'll do this and upload the new stuff tomorrow then.
Title: Re: Frost* Forum Collab Song - the tech thread (TTT!)
Post by: RWA on October 05, 2011, 03:28:56 PM
Quote from: "Pedro"
Quote from: "RWA"
Quote from: "Pedro"
@Ron: What is the current thinking about the tweak of Jem's BLM solo that I reworked to fit in at about 12:28 of version 10. http://http://www.box.net/shared/yir3u5roqo
Will you still use it?
Don't think I ever supplied a midi for it...?
First time I hear this! I think.....  :?
But it might work indeed so please provide the midi for that.  :)
Will do. I posted the WAV on The Box yonks ago, maybe I thought the notifications would be enough to alert you(?). I wonder if I did that with anything else? (pretty sure I slaughtered the BM guitar solo too) I'll have a look tonight.

As for video, yeah it's a good idea. It'll take a lot of material to fill a track this long (so far!) but it could be done (maybe if we do a radio edit!). I could also film myself recording one of my contributions....but who needs to see some bloke just clicking a mouse? :)
Box.net usually notifies any change made but somehow I missed it. I guess. Anyway, midi file please!  :D

About the video: just fake it!  :mrgreen:
Title: Re: Frost* Forum Collab Song - the tech thread (TTT!)
Post by: E.S. on October 05, 2011, 06:50:19 PM
Speaking of Cubase, I just returned from the store with this:

(http://http://img192.imageshack.us/img192/9518/picture7zm.jpg)

About bloody time, frankly. :D
Title: Re: Frost* Forum Collab Song - the tech thread (TTT!)
Post by: RWA on October 05, 2011, 07:53:40 PM
Quote from: "E.S."
Speaking of Cubase, I just returned from the store with this:

(http://http://img192.imageshack.us/img192/9518/picture7zm.jpg)

About bloody time, frankly. :D
Nice! But does it export a click track?!  ;)
Title: Re: Frost* Forum Collab Song - the tech thread (TTT!)
Post by: E.S. on October 05, 2011, 08:05:10 PM
That's why I bought it. :D

We'll see. I'm NOT installing yet, because I'm going to reinstall the whole Windows system, and then everything manually, which is a bloody hassle. Gotta finish some projects first while everything is working.
Title: Re: Frost* Forum Collab Song - the tech thread (TTT!)
Post by: RWA on October 06, 2011, 02:57:04 PM
October 6th 2011 = busy FFCS day!  :mrgreen:

http://http://www.box.net/files#/files/0/f/121713223/FFCS_version_12

Version 12 is ready and it includes all the new ES goodness and Pedro's BLM solo. To let the solo breath a bit more I've extended the section it was mend for with 4 bars (starting at 12:29). So the song is now slightly longer and therefore the tempo-track has changed!

Now bare with me.... because I've made 7 'versions' in total to please everyone:

1 - FFCS version 12 FULL : the full song (duh!)
2 - FFCS version 12 BASSLESS: Includes everything but the bass tracks
3 - FFCS version 12 DRUMLESS - clicktrack: no drums and no click track
4 - FFCS version 12 DRUMLESS + clicktrack: no drums + click track on top of the song
5 - FFCS version 12 clicktrack AUDIO VERSION: just an audio version of the click track
6 - FFCS version 12 (LEFT- click + RIGHT FFCS): like No 4 but the clicktrack is left and the song is right.
7 - FFCS clicktrack as MIDI file: create your own clicktrack with this (using your own sounds)

Pick the one you prefer/need. For example, you can import No 3 (drumless version without click track) and No 5 and/or 7 so you can vary the levels of the clicktrack/song or create  your own clicktrack.

About the drums:
I would like to keep the RWA intro drums (00:44 - 02:50). All the rest is availalbe for any other drummer. There's a reprise of the RWA intro drums between 11:45 - 13:22 (going into the end section) but I prefer someone else to play that. It can always be put back there by copy/paste.

Besides, don't listen to much to my drums; create your own beats please! :)

About the 'drumless' and 'bassless' versions (concerning the Snowman section):
I can't get the drums and bass out of Jim's 'Snowman' section between 08:07 - 10:50 because that is 1 complete mp3 file. He has a hard time recovering those recordings (saved to a format which can't be reloaded anymore). At one point he was talking about re-recording it (which would be nice to be able to replace the drums and bass in that section) but I dunno if he's still up for that. Not a big deal since it sounds just fine but so you know why there's still drums and bass in there.

Note 1: I've also included the above info as a text file over at FFCS/version 12 folder.
Note 2: look at the version 12 image file for addition info.
Note 3: Fall has started! Weather sucks so no playing outside! Pick up yer instruments and start recording!
Title: Re: Frost* Forum Collab Song - the tech thread (TTT!)
Post by: Pedro on October 06, 2011, 07:05:11 PM
Can I just say a huge thank you to you, Ron. You're the engine that keeps this thing going. :)
Title: Re: Frost* Forum Collab Song - the tech thread (TTT!)
Post by: rogerg on October 06, 2011, 09:21:56 PM
indeed!  thanks, Ron!!
Title: Re: Frost* Forum Collab Song - the tech thread (TTT!)
Post by: E.S. on October 06, 2011, 09:25:15 PM
Yes, great work. I know how much work it can be. :)
Title: Re: Frost* Forum Collab Song - the tech thread (TTT!)
Post by: RWA on October 06, 2011, 09:35:30 PM
You're all welcome.  :)

Forgot to mention that I'm not to crazy about the tone I used for Pedro's BLM solo; I'll find something better later. I didn't want to spend to much time on tweaking that; that'll come later. This also goes for the overall levels and such; I'm not spending to much time on automation since this thing is still in progress. Everything will sound fine eventually, k?  ;)
Title: Re: Frost* Forum Collab Song - the tech thread (TTT!)
Post by: Pedro on October 06, 2011, 10:43:20 PM
I haven't actually listened yet (soon) but no probs, Ron.
As I said in the comments on my MIDI file, the original solo was played (phrased) in real-time by Jem using a specific synth voice.
One can't expect to just lift that MIDI and have it sound perfect in another voice.
Add to that the tweakage I added to make it fit the new song, which I did to sound "reasonable" to me in the voice I used.
Making that all work with a third voice is bound to require a further re-tweak.
Title: Re: Frost* Forum Collab Song - the tech thread (TTT!)
Post by: Pedro on October 06, 2011, 10:48:16 PM
GAH! I can't get access to the V12 file....The Box says "No".  :cry:

@Ron: Do I have access problems to your account? I obviously can log-in and upload stuff.
Title: Re: Frost* Forum Collab Song - the tech thread (TTT!)
Post by: RWA on October 07, 2011, 12:39:25 AM
Quote from: "Pedro"
GAH! I can't get access to the V12 file....The Box says "No".  :cry:

@Ron: Do I have access problems to your account? I obviously can log-in and upload stuff.
I obviously banned you months ago!  :lol:

But seriously, I have no clue why it doesn't work. Have you tried the 'public' version on http://http://www.box.net/ffcs ?
Works fine over here.
Title: Re: Frost* Forum Collab Song - the tech thread (TTT!)
Post by: Pedro on October 07, 2011, 12:56:25 AM
Aha, the public version works...ta!  :)
Title: Re: Frost* Forum Collab Song - the tech thread (TTT!)
Post by: Drarok on October 07, 2011, 07:04:39 AM
Quote from: "RWA"
Weather sucks so no playing outside! Pick up yer instruments and start recording!
Yes, dad. :cry:

...

:mrgreen:
Title: Re: Frost* Forum Collab Song - the tech thread (TTT!)
Post by: rogerg on October 07, 2011, 10:36:47 PM
Quote from: "Drarok"
Quote from: "RWA"
Weather sucks so no playing outside! Pick up yer instruments and start recording!
Yes, dad. :cry:

...

:mrgreen:

heh
Title: Re: Frost* Forum Collab Song - the tech thread (TTT!)
Post by: RacingHippo on October 08, 2011, 10:47:49 AM
Monsieur, wiz zese empee-srees you are really spoiling uz!
Title: Re: Frost* Forum Collab Song - the tech thread (TTT!)
Post by: johninblack on October 08, 2011, 10:59:56 AM
Quote from: "RWA"
Note 3: Fall has started! Weather sucks so no playing outside! Pick up yer instruments and start recording!

Unfortunately so has the flu bug......spent a fair bit of the week in bed so slight delay but not too long, would still hope to start uploading parts towards the end of this week :)
Title: Re: Frost* Forum Collab Song - the tech thread (TTT!)
Post by: E.S. on October 08, 2011, 11:41:57 AM
Quote from: "RacingHippo"
Monsieur, wiz zese empee-srees you are really spoiling uz!
Lizten carefully, I will zay diz only ounze.
Title: Re: Frost* Forum Collab Song - the tech thread (TTT!)
Post by: Mikey on October 08, 2011, 02:43:52 PM
Quote from: "E.S."
Quote from: "RacingHippo"
Monsieur, wiz zese empee-srees you are really spoiling uz!
Lizten carefully, I will zay diz only ounze.
Time for the whisk?
Title: Re: Frost* Forum Collab Song - the tech thread (TTT!)
Post by: RWA on October 09, 2011, 09:49:40 AM
Quote from: "johninblack"
Quote from: "RWA"
Note 3: Fall has started! Weather sucks so no playing outside! Pick up yer instruments and start recording!

Unfortunately so has the flu bug......spent a fair bit of the week in bed so slight delay but not too long, would still hope to start uploading parts towards the end of this week :)
Same here, took about a week to shake it off. It never seems to amaze me how much snot comes out of 1 person.  :shock:

Anyways! Happy recording.  :)
Title: Re: Frost* Forum Collab Song - the tech thread (TTT!)
Post by: Mikey on October 14, 2011, 08:51:28 AM
Quote from: "Pedro"
GAH! I can't get access to the V12 file....The Box says "No".  :cry:

@Ron: Do I have access problems to your account? I obviously can log-in and upload stuff.

Filey,filey, accessy not


So K, seen other link
Title: Re: Frost* Forum Collab Song - the tech thread (TTT!)
Post by: Mikey on October 14, 2011, 09:04:09 AM
Being a complete numpty when it comes to things like this, what program is this?

(http://http://i250.photobucket.com/albums/gg258/Mikewhitehead75/FFCSversion12.png)

& cracking work Ron  :D
Title: Re: Frost* Forum Collab Song - the tech thread (TTT!)
Post by: RacingHippo on October 14, 2011, 09:29:01 AM
Program?
I thought it was Ron's Big Sheet Of Paper that he likes to draw (and cross out) boxes on.
Title: Re: Frost* Forum Collab Song - the tech thread (TTT!)
Post by: E.S. on October 14, 2011, 09:52:20 AM
Yes. You see, he still has to color the rest of them with crayons.
Title: Re: Frost* Forum Collab Song - the tech thread (TTT!)
Post by: RWA on October 14, 2011, 10:40:43 AM
Quote from: "E.S."
Yes. You see, he still has to color the rest of them with crayons.
Virual crayons that is!  ;)

It's Steinberg Cubase 5 and I take a screen shot of the project window (print screen) and copy that to MS paint to add some notes (or color stuff with crayons). I hope it helps a bit to see what happens where.  :)
Title: Re: Frost* Forum Collab Song - the tech thread (TTT!)
Post by: Mikey on October 14, 2011, 12:31:03 PM
Crayons !!!!! I'm in  :D

Is cubase better than pro-tools?
Title: Re: Frost* Forum Collab Song - the tech thread (TTT!)
Post by: E.S. on October 14, 2011, 12:33:35 PM
Us Cubase users will say that it is. Pro Tools users won't. Honestly, all these DAWs are so good today you can't go wrong, it's a matter of preference.
But I do believe you get a lot more for yer money if you go Cubase. No silly track limits or anything. If you go Pro Tools HD, it's gonna be VERY expensive.
Title: Re: Frost* Forum Collab Song - the tech thread (TTT!)
Post by: RWA on October 14, 2011, 01:16:43 PM
Quote from: "Mikey"
Is cubase better than pro-tools?

No. Although E.S. will claim Cubase 6 is way better then Cubase 5.  :lol:

Cubase, Nuendo, ProTools, Sonar, Logic, Studio One, Live, etc.... all in the same league. They all come in several sizes (from basic/LE to fully loaded/XXL) but one doesn't sound better then the other. 16 bit = 16 bit and 24 bit = 24 bit etc. The differences come in size and set up and features. You can make all of them sound both horrible and fantastic.
Title: Re: Frost* Forum Collab Song - the tech thread (TTT!)
Post by: Pedro on October 14, 2011, 01:23:03 PM
Quote from: "RWA"
Quote from: "Mikey"
You can make all of them sound both horrible and fantastic.
...at the same time...
Title: Re: Frost* Forum Collab Song - the tech thread (TTT!)
Post by: E.S. on October 14, 2011, 01:30:19 PM
Quote from: "RWA"
No. Although E.S. will claim Cubase 6 is way better then Cubase 5.  :lol:
Of course, gotta justify the expense.  :D

Honestly, it's not a huge upgrade, but I do like the new time stretch algorithms, they are great. Really great. I'm a time correction maniac due to my lousy bass and guitar skills.
Title: Re: Frost* Forum Collab Song - the tech thread (TTT!)
Post by: Mikey on October 14, 2011, 03:02:18 PM
Quote from: "Pedro"
Quote from: "RWA"
Quote from: "Mikey"
You can make all of them sound both horrible and fantastic.
...at the same time...

 :?  Did I? Mind you I don't have a memory
Title: Re: Frost* Forum Collab Song - the tech thread (TTT!)
Post by: Mikey on October 14, 2011, 03:03:05 PM
Ah!, No, I see what you did there.
Title: Re: Frost* Forum Collab Song - the tech thread (TTT!)
Post by: Pedro on October 14, 2011, 09:46:32 PM
Yep, I knobbed it up... :)
Title: Re: Frost* Forum Collab Song - the tech thread (TTT!)
Post by: johninblack on October 18, 2011, 11:42:58 PM
I've finally got some bass recorded and uploaded. I'm going to redo it as I can do better just wanted to prove I'm on the case!!
Title: Re: Frost* Forum Collab Song - the tech thread (TTT!)
Post by: Mikey on October 19, 2011, 06:08:16 AM
Quote from: "johninblack"
I've finally got some bass recorded and uploaded. I'm going to redo it as I can do better just wanted to prove I'm on the case!!
Should be safe enough, unless you've got it stood on end
Title: Re: Frost* Forum Collab Song - the tech thread (TTT!)
Post by: RWA on October 19, 2011, 06:16:27 AM
Quote from: "johninblack"
I've finally got some bass recorded and uploaded. I'm going to redo it as I can do better just wanted to prove I'm on the case!!
Excellent sir. Will import it into the project and have a listen tonight.  :)
Title: Re: Frost* Forum Collab Song - the tech thread (TTT!)
Post by: RWA on October 19, 2011, 03:25:08 PM
It sounds great John. VERY nice tone........ and levels are perfect! Please continue.  :D
Title: Re: Frost* Forum Collab Song - the tech thread (TTT!)
Post by: johninblack on October 19, 2011, 05:06:13 PM
Quote from: "RWA"
It sounds great John. VERY nice tone........ and levels are perfect! Please continue.  :D
I'll crack on :) That's the 5 string (£35 on ebay + I rewired it and replaced the pots)
Title: Re: Frost* Forum Collab Song - the tech thread (TTT!)
Post by: E.S. on October 20, 2011, 01:24:20 AM
Sweet. It's gonna be great!  :D
Title: Re: Frost* Forum Collab Song - the tech thread (TTT!)
Post by: RWA on November 24, 2011, 07:50:44 PM
+++UPDATE+++UPDATE+++UPDATE+++UPDATE+++UPDATE+++UPDATE+++UPDATE+++

FFCS version 13 (http://http://www.box.com/ffcs#/ffcs/1/159574117)

This one includes:

John_in_Black
The first parts of JIB's bass works. So far 'only' during the first 1:41 minutes.
More will follow in the next few weeks I'm sure. LOVE the sounds of his bass!

Racing_Hippo
RH's bongoid and congoid percussion brilliance.
First round is between 0:47 - 2:39 and a reprise of that is between 11:35 - 13:51.
Takes both sections to a new level me thinks.

ES and Jem vocals edited by RWA
Some serious audio mangling using the original You/I vox from Jem and ES's Snowman's Son vox.
ES's bits are used between 2:11 - 3:20, Jem's bits are used between 9:48 - 11:37
I used Cubase's answer to autotune, named VaryAudio, for that. It's a GREAT tool to 'fuck with' audio files.  :mrgreen:  

Apart from that there was time stretching, slicing, effects and lot's of automation involved.
Just to give you an idea, I've included an image file of the track with Frost* bits, included the automation tracks:
(http://http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7026/6396092065_8ba3105d48_z.jpg)

I'm aware the lyrics make little to no sense in this epic but we have to use what we've got, eh?  ;)
Now, it's been a lot of work but that doesn't mean crap. If you gals like it, it stays. Otherwise it's gone, K?!  :)

RWA
New drums for the first slow section between 3:20 - 4:30
Playing 16th notes sounded like a great idea 1 year ago but it started to annoy me. So I changed it.

Pedro
The edited BLM synth solo at 12:43 has a better sound now. To make it fit I've deleted my solo guitars (12:55) there.

Overall
I've concluded the marker track and properly named and colored all used parts in the project:
(http://http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7147/6396092263_da693d723e_z.jpg)

Now ALL info is there about who did what and where in what section (SECTION A till Q).
Took me 53 markers to explain everything. Every collaborator has his own color so you can see what is what.
There's a full image file of the project (like the one above) here:
Improved (big and downloadable) image file of zee project (FFCS 13 image file) (http://http://www.box.com/ffcs#/ffcs/%5Bobject%20Object%5D/159574117)
(link edited on Nov 25th)


And the overall sound is better. I've been using some compression and limiting.

Right! Tell me what you think!  :)
Title: Re: Frost* Forum Collab Song - the tech thread (TTT!)
Post by: E.S. on November 25, 2011, 01:54:58 AM
Woow! That's not what I did sing.  :D
Brilliant! Love to hear things like that go in a new and original direction.

Big thanks to everyone involved, this is a bloody cool track, well done. And thanks to Ron for dealing with the massive task of organizing everything. You may send the bill to...
Title: Re: Frost* Forum Collab Song - the tech thread (TTT!)
Post by: rogerg on November 25, 2011, 02:26:05 AM
awesome, Ron!  thanks for all your work!!
Title: Re: Frost* Forum Collab Song - the tech thread (TTT!)
Post by: Drarok on November 25, 2011, 01:56:42 PM
Sounds like you evened out the volume difference between my two sections around the 5 mins mark, too. You have been busy! :mrgreen:
Title: Re: Frost* Forum Collab Song - the tech thread (TTT!)
Post by: RWA on November 25, 2011, 03:45:58 PM
Quote from: "E.S."
Woow! That's not what I did sing.  :D
:mrgreen:

I simply follow Jem's general advice: go out there and.... FUCK WITH SOUND!

I've cleared up the image file of the project a bit and took out 1 or 2 errors. Please download new version if you want to figure out what's where and how late and why and who didn't and because I say so! OCCUPY the FFCS I say!

53 markers, 40 tracks, 567897 edits (= estimated guess.........  :lol: ).
Improved (big and downloadable) image file of zee project (FFCS 13 image file is the name of the it) (http://http://www.box.com/ffcs#/ffcs/%5Bobject%20Object%5D/159574117)
Title: Re: Frost* Forum Collab Song - the tech thread (TTT!)
Post by: johninblack on November 25, 2011, 08:46:57 PM
Quote from: "RWA"
John_in_Black
The first parts of JIB's bass works. So far 'only' during the first 1:41 minutes.
More will follow in the next few weeks I'm sure. LOVE the sounds of his bass!

Don't know what you've done but all those bits that were sticking out as I could here timing/fingering issues have gone!
Yes, there will be more I just have to fit it in along side real life, I've got a fair bit going on :) It WILL get done!
Title: Re: Frost* Forum Collab Song - the tech thread (TTT!)
Post by: johninblack on November 25, 2011, 08:53:58 PM
Hahahahahahahahahahahahahaha - "You/I Vocals Violated"  8-)  8-)  8-)
Title: Re: Frost* Forum Collab Song - the tech thread (TTT!)
Post by: RWA on November 25, 2011, 10:09:36 PM
Quote from: "johninblack"
Quote from: "RWA"
John_in_Black
The first parts of JIB's bass works. So far 'only' during the first 1:41 minutes.
More will follow in the next few weeks I'm sure. LOVE the sounds of his bass!

Don't know what you've done but all those bits that were sticking out as I could here timing/fingering issues have gone!
Yes, there will be more I just have to fit it in along side real life, I've got a fair bit going on :) It WILL get done!
I can fix timing issues most of the time when the notes (or in the case of drums, the hits) are more or less isolated. So bass and drums can be 'fixed' in many cases.  Oh, and hail Cubase.  :)

Again John, LOVE the sound of your bass. It fits perfectly in the mix. Looking forward to the rest of your works.
Title: Re: Frost* Forum Collab Song - the tech thread (TTT!)
Post by: Mikey on November 26, 2011, 07:40:41 AM
Quote from: "rogerg"
awesome, Ron!  thanks for all your work!!
Dittoness indeed

Drinks all round at the Hay Maze Inn
Title: Re: Frost* Forum Collab Song - the tech thread (TTT!)
Post by: Pedro on November 26, 2011, 01:32:39 PM
Awww, our little track is all grown-up! :) Nice work Ron....and everyone.
Title: Re: Frost* Forum Collab Song - the tech thread (TTT!)
Post by: Mikey on November 26, 2011, 04:31:43 PM
Listened to Public Image earlier on OGWT, Annie Nightingale discribed it as on of the best performances ever.....!!!!!!!!
Annie, get your ears round this  :D
Title: Re: Frost* Forum Collab Song - the tech thread (TTT!)
Post by: Jim Takacs on December 02, 2011, 05:01:11 PM
This is absolutely FABULOUS!!!!!!!  Damn Ron!!   :o  Covered in Goosebumps only 2 min in!! Has Jem Heard this yet?
Title: Re: Frost* Forum Collab Song - the tech thread (TTT!)
Post by: Mikey on December 02, 2011, 07:21:18 PM
RH, If you're the congoid/Bongoid man, where's the Cowbelloid?
Title: Re: Frost* Forum Collab Song - the tech thread (TTT!)
Post by: RWA on December 02, 2011, 08:02:31 PM
Quote from: "Jim Takacs"
This is absolutely FABULOUS!!!!!!!  Damn Ron!!   :o  Covered in Goosebumps only 2 min in!!
Oi! No swearing!  :x



But thanks.  :)

Quote from: "Jim Takacs"
Has Jem Heard this yet?
Not that I'm aware of.
Title: Re: Frost* Forum Collab Song - the tech thread (TTT!)
Post by: Pedro on December 02, 2011, 09:46:27 PM
There is nothing stopping Jem from having been in here and followed the links, but I kind of hope he hasn't/doesn't until we think we have finished it. Just my view, natch. :)
Title: Re: Frost* Forum Collab Song - the tech thread (TTT!)
Post by: ich_bin_besser on December 02, 2011, 09:57:06 PM
Wow, first time I listened to this track, I think. GREAT!!  :D
Title: Re: Frost* Forum Collab Song - the tech thread (TTT!)
Post by: E.S. on December 03, 2011, 01:39:48 AM
You know what would have been cool?

Finish the track before Christmas, and send it to Jem. A tiny little present from the Frost*ies.  :D

But can we do that? It's not a lot of time...
Title: Re: Frost* Forum Collab Song - the tech thread (TTT!)
Post by: Pedro on December 03, 2011, 06:31:48 AM
Fear not, the Forum elves are on the case.
....as they say, art is never finished...it's only abandoned....
Title: Re: Frost* Forum Collab Song - the tech thread (TTT!)
Post by: El_Mayonnaise on December 03, 2011, 09:07:23 AM
It's great that we could get Kanye West to do the vocals.

 ;)
Title: Re: Frost* Forum Collab Song - the tech thread (TTT!)
Post by: RWA on December 03, 2011, 11:06:45 AM
Quote from: "El_Mayonnaise"
It's great that we could get Kanye West to do the vocals.
 ;)
Gay fish!  :D
Then again, he's a genius AND the voice of this generation.  :P

FINAL RELEASE
I'd love to release it before Christmas. Then again, it's been 'released' since version 1 since it's all public stuff.
But I dare to claim version 13 is very much near the final version. It would be nice to have the full bass works of JIB included but that can be consider as a (very) nice bonus. I mean, the track has all the bass tracks it needs, it's just nicer to have them all done by a real bass player. But I can image JIB can't do all that in the next 2 weeks.

Also I would like some more vocal bits (the current bits have been used and abused and violated more then enough!) but I doubt that can be concluded within 2 weeks. Remember I have to add (and possibly edit) those parts into the project also and I can't work on the FFCS every day.

Anyway, if people have stuff to add then MAKE HASTE! so I have the time to put it in.
If not, we'll go with version 13 as the first final version. We can always make a second final version later, eh?  ;)

I will shoot a desktop video of the project so one can follow the track from beginning to end. My guess is it will make a bit more sense then the frozen image I've provided so far. If someone has the time and means to turn it into some sort of video then step forward please. Some artwork (that includes the credits of the ones involved) would be nice also.....

Be aware of what you promise though; we only have 3 weeks in total to complete it. So if anyone wants to do anything to get it released before Christmas then make sure you have time to do the work involved, k?!  :)
Title: Re: Frost* Forum Collab Song - the tech thread (TTT!)
Post by: Pedro on December 03, 2011, 01:15:35 PM
I should be able to do the video with captions, etc. if you let me have your vid of the project, Ron.
My PC is dead but I should be able to get set up on Mrs. Pedro's PC to do this.
Title: Re: Frost* Forum Collab Song - the tech thread (TTT!)
Post by: Drarok on December 03, 2011, 03:36:02 PM
I liked someone's idea of us videoing ourselves performing our parts, too. ¨_¨
Title: Re: Frost* Forum Collab Song - the tech thread (TTT!)
Post by: Pedro on December 03, 2011, 03:38:54 PM
If peeps want to submit clips of them and their parts(har!) then these could be incorporated.
Title: Re: Frost* Forum Collab Song - the tech thread (TTT!)
Post by: E.S. on December 03, 2011, 03:42:14 PM
True, music is never finished. But yes, 13 is pretty darn epic at the moment.

Can't wait to hear it with complete JiB bass myself.  :D
Title: Re: Frost* Forum Collab Song - the tech thread (TTT!)
Post by: RWA on December 03, 2011, 04:33:25 PM
Quote from: "Pedro"
I should be able to do the video with captions, etc. if you let me have your vid of the project, Ron.
My PC is dead but I should be able to get set up on Mrs. Pedro's PC to do this.
I yet have to create it but I'll have it done somewhere next week.

Quote from: "Drarok"
I liked someone's idea of us videoing ourselves performing our parts, too. ¨_¨
That was my idea but I had no clue we were going to deliver the thing before Christmas. I'll see what I can do but don't count on anything from me. Which reminds me; Racing Hippo DID shoot himself playing da bongo's. Pedro, you can find that footage in his personal folder over at Box.net.  :)
Title: Re: Frost* Forum Collab Song - the tech thread (TTT!)
Post by: RacingHippo on December 03, 2011, 04:37:26 PM
Quote from: "Pedro"
If peeps want to submit clips of them and their parts(har!) then these could be incorporated.
There's vid of me Bonging already submitted to the folder; I can bung you a higher res one directly if ya like.

If I get around to layin' down some drummage in the next week or so I'll video that, too.
Title: Re: Frost* Forum Collab Song - the tech thread (TTT!)
Post by: Jim Takacs on December 03, 2011, 04:55:20 PM
LOVE the Vocal Editing Ron!!  Hey, Jem's a Forum Member! Wonder if he would like to make a submission??  :shock:  :P
Title: Re: Frost* Forum Collab Song - the tech thread (TTT!)
Post by: E.S. on December 03, 2011, 05:10:16 PM
Quote from: "RWA"
That was my idea but I had no clue we were going to deliver the thing before Christmas.
Only a suggestion sir. If it can't be done, it can't be done. I know how much work this kind of thing is.


Would be nice though. No pressure..  :D
Title: Re: Frost* Forum Collab Song - the tech thread (TTT!)
Post by: johninblack on December 03, 2011, 05:15:59 PM
Quote from: "E.S."
True, music is never finished. But yes, 13 is pretty darn epic at the moment.

Can't wait to hear it with complete JiB bass myself.  :D
Easy, no problem I can get it all done by Christmas*







*2012
Title: Re: Frost* Forum Collab Song - the tech thread (TTT!)
Post by: RWA on December 04, 2011, 02:32:29 PM
Quote from: "E.S."
Quote from: "RWA"
That was my idea but I had no clue we were going to deliver the thing before Christmas.
Only a suggestion sir. If it can't be done, it can't be done. I know how much work this kind of thing is.


Would be nice though. No pressure..  :D
Well, .... after giving it some proper thoughts .... I'm starting to wonder how realistic it is to create a proper (15 min) video within 2 to 3 weeks.

If I record a video of the project it will be of the current version. If new parts are being inserted (JIB playing bass, RH playing drums) it means the video isn't accurate anymore and has to be redone. Also, having video footage of people performing is great but so far we only have footage of Racing Hippo. If we want to include stuff like that then atleast most of us should provide footage. Speaking for myself, I doubt Iíll be able to shoot it any time soon. Maybe I am, but most likely I'm not.

I think the main goal this month should be to present the song to Jem. Version 13 (the current one) or a possible version 14 with new additions. Because, let's face it, it took 15 months to get here; no need to rush towards the end just because Christmas is coming up.

My goal will be to include possible new audio tracks (JIB playing bass, RH playing drums) if they're provided in time AND if I can find the time to put them in. It usually comes with some editing and tweaking which takes a fair amount of time. And I will do the project video next week (just footage of the song running in Cubase so one can see which parts are where and who did what) to see if it works.
That's all I'll promise, k? Maybe I'll get more done but don't count on it.  :)
Title: Re: Frost* Forum Collab Song - the tech thread (TTT!)
Post by: Pedro on December 04, 2011, 05:27:34 PM
Wise words, Ron.
I think the song will probably be deployed to Jem and the wider world via the Advent Calendar in one of the envelopes close to Christmas. We can then deliver a more rounded package with video etc. after that.
Make sense?
Title: Re: Frost* Forum Collab Song - the tech thread (TTT!)
Post by: RWA on December 04, 2011, 05:31:33 PM
Quote from: "Pedro"
Wise words, Ron.
I think the song will probably be deployed to Jem and the wider world via the Advent Calendar in one of the envelopes close to Christmas. We can then deliver a more rounded package with video etc. after that.
Make sense?
Makes total sense!  :mrgreen:
Title: Re: Frost* Forum Collab Song - the tech thread (TTT!)
Post by: johninblack on December 04, 2011, 06:12:49 PM
Quote from: "RWA"
Quote from: "Pedro"
Wise words, Ron.
I think the song will probably be deployed to Jem and the wider world via the Advent Calendar in one of the envelopes close to Christmas. We can then deliver a more rounded package with video etc. after that.
Make sense?
Makes total sense!  :mrgreen:
Does that mean I really have till Christmas 2012?   :mrgreen:
Title: Re: Frost* Forum Collab Song - the tech thread (TTT!)
Post by: Pedro on December 04, 2011, 06:14:00 PM
:D
Title: Re: Frost* Forum Collab Song - the tech thread (TTT!)
Post by: RacingHippo on December 04, 2011, 08:29:09 PM
Quote from: "johninblack"
Quote from: "RWA"
Quote from: "Pedro"
Wise words, Ron.
I think the song will probably be deployed to Jem and the wider world via the Advent Calendar in one of the envelopes close to Christmas. We can then deliver a more rounded package with video etc. after that.
Make sense?
Makes total sense!  :mrgreen:
Does that mean I really have till Christmas 2012?   :mrgreen:
For significance, we should continue tweaking it until Christmas 2112.
Title: Re: Frost* Forum Collab Song - the tech thread (TTT!)
Post by: RWA on December 07, 2011, 05:06:40 PM
Order please!!!! *bam beng kadeng!!!*  :x



Thanks.  :mrgreen:

Right! How to build an epic! Hear hear!
Well...... 'Watch Watch' actually but that's a silly thing to shout.
The project video I was talking about. It's a 'live' version of the project running in Cubase. Including credits 'n stuff.
Not the most exciting thing to watch, but very informative if you want to see how this thing was build:

FFCS version 13 video (Stream on Vimeo) (http://http://vimeo.com/33290359)

FFCS version 13 video (Download on Box.net) (http://http://www.box.com/ffcs#/ffcs/%5Bobject%20Object%5D/159574117)

Make sure to watch it full screen HD so you can see what's happening.

I've tried YouTube as well but it's declined because of the lenght! It's a bleeding epic I tell ya!!!!  :shock:
I thought YT could handle 10 hours per video nowadays?!  :?
Title: Re: Frost* Forum Collab Song - the tech thread (TTT!)
Post by: E.S. on December 07, 2011, 05:14:48 PM
Oops! Seems I'm not allowed to download it.  :?
Title: Re: Frost* Forum Collab Song - the tech thread (TTT!)
Post by: RWA on December 07, 2011, 07:22:32 PM
Try again:

FFCS version 13 video (Download on Box.net) (http://http://www.box.com/ffcs#/ffcs/%5Bobject%20Object%5D/159574117)
Title: Re: Frost* Forum Collab Song - the tech thread (TTT!)
Post by: E.S. on December 07, 2011, 10:10:32 PM
Fun to see the music in action. Nice movie. :)
Title: Re: Frost* Forum Collab Song - the tech thread (TTT!)
Post by: RWA on December 07, 2011, 10:20:35 PM
Quote from: "E.S."
Fun to see the music in action. Nice movie. :)
I shouldn't say this...... but I think.... this will FINALLY give me the well earn Oscar!  ;)
Title: Re: Frost* Forum Collab Song - the tech thread (TTT!)
Post by: johninblack on December 07, 2011, 10:27:40 PM
Quote from: "RWA"
Quote from: "E.S."
Fun to see the music in action. Nice movie. :)
I shouldn't say this...... but I think.... this will FINALLY give me the well earn Oscar!  ;)
No question about that, you're a dead cert. :mrgreen:  :twisted:  :mrgreen:
Title: Re: Frost* Forum Collab Song - the tech thread (TTT!)
Post by: Drarok on December 07, 2011, 11:54:25 PM
Hey, that's not my real name! ;)

Great vid though. :mrgreen:
Title: Re: Frost* Forum Collab Song - the tech thread (TTT!)
Post by: E.S. on December 08, 2011, 02:51:03 AM
But I didn't get it, how did the bad guy get away in the end?
Title: Re: Frost* Forum Collab Song - the tech thread (TTT!)
Post by: RWA on December 08, 2011, 08:04:21 AM
Quote from: "Drarok"
Hey, that's not my real name! ;)
Oh, it's not?  :lol:
Please PM me your real name then. :)
Title: Re: Frost* Forum Collab Song - the tech thread (TTT!)
Post by: RWA on December 08, 2011, 08:05:06 AM
Quote from: "E.S."
But I didn't get it, how did the bad guy get away in the end?
In 7/8 time signature!  :shock:
Title: Re: Frost* Forum Collab Song - the tech thread (TTT!)
Post by: Jim Takacs on December 14, 2011, 08:05:56 PM
FFCS 13 Vid on Youtube..   I Uploaded it to my acct. cuz Im Special, well thats what My Mommy has always said..  Its Unlisted for now so the Public cant see it unless they have this link.. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-2MsK1Vb ... e=youtu.be (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-2MsK1VbleI&feature=youtu.be)  Plus since Its Rons Vid and I Didnt get his permission to upload it.. :?  

If Yah want Ill add proper tags and descriptions and make it public....   Again, Excellent work Everyone! And Ron, you ok too!  ;)   http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-2MsK1Vb ... e=youtu.be (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-2MsK1VbleI&feature=youtu.be)
Title: Re: Frost* Forum Collab Song - the tech thread (TTT!)
Post by: RWA on December 14, 2011, 09:05:49 PM
Quote from: "Jim Takacs"
FFCS 13 Vid on Youtube..   I Uploaded it to my acct. cuz Im Special, well thats what My Mommy has always said..  Its Unlisted for now so the Public cant see it unless they have this link.. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-2MsK1Vb ... e=youtu.be (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-2MsK1VbleI&feature=youtu.be)  Plus since Its Rons Vid and I Didnt get his permission to upload it.. :?  

If Yah want Ill add proper tags and descriptions and make it public....   Again, Excellent work Everyone! And Ron, you ok too!  ;)   http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-2MsK1Vb ... e=youtu.be (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-2MsK1VbleI&feature=youtu.be)
Oh excellent!  :mrgreen:

Yes, you have permission to spread the word 'n stuff. The version on Vimeo is public also.
I also don't see a version 14 before the end of this year; I think we have to stick with 13 for now. I have more time  to work on FFCS between Christmas and Jan 2nd but it all comes down to being worth to update everything. I only do that if there are substantial changes to the song... since it's a lot of work to put everything in AND shoot a new video of it.

I might also use that week to shoot some video of meself. Possibly and probably in the nude.  :shock:
Title: Re: Frost* Forum Collab Song - the tech thread (TTT!)
Post by: Jim Takacs on December 14, 2011, 10:43:12 PM
Quote from: "RWA"

Yes, you have permission to spread the word 'n stuff. The version on Vimeo is public also.
I also don't see a version 14 before the end of this year; I think we have to stick with 13 for now. I have more time  to work on FFCS between Christmas and Jan 2nd but it all comes down to being worth to update everything. I only do that if there are substantial changes to the song... since it's a lot of work to put everything in AND shoot a new video of it.

I might also use that week to shoot some video of meself. Possibly and probably in the nude.  :shock:

Oh YAY!!  Please wear that Smashing  Pretty Yellow Sundress of yours first though! Oh and those Tweed pumps!  :D
Title: Re: Frost* Forum Collab Song - the tech thread (TTT!)
Post by: RWA on December 14, 2011, 10:53:42 PM
Quote from: "Jim Takacs"
Quote from: "RWA"

Yes, you have permission to spread the word 'n stuff. The version on Vimeo is public also.
I also don't see a version 14 before the end of this year; I think we have to stick with 13 for now. I have more time  to work on FFCS between Christmas and Jan 2nd but it all comes down to being worth to update everything. I only do that if there are substantial changes to the song... since it's a lot of work to put everything in AND shoot a new video of it.

I might also use that week to shoot some video of meself. Possibly and probably in the nude.  :shock:

Oh YAY!!  Please wear that Smashing  Pretty Yellow Sundress of yours first though! Oh and those Tweed pumps!  :D
I said 'in the nude' ........  :?
Title: Re: Frost* Forum Collab Song - the tech thread (TTT!)
Post by: Pedro on December 14, 2011, 10:58:26 PM
...but I thought we were planning to give version 13 to Jem (and the thousand+ calendar watchers) via the calendar on Dec 24th? Or are we now shouting to the world about it already?
Title: Re: Frost* Forum Collab Song - the tech thread (TTT!)
Post by: RWA on December 15, 2011, 09:18:43 AM
Quote from: "Pedro"
...but I thought we were planning to give version 13 to Jem (and the thousand+ calendar watchers) via the calendar on Dec 24th? Or are we now shouting to the world about it already?
Sure. But that suggests that this thing has been a secret all this time, which it is not. It's been an open project from version 1 and anyone could listen to it at any time. And the video I posted on Vimeo is public also. If it wasn't for YouTube being silly it would have been on there also since last week. I've also posted earlier versions of the song on Facebook previously through out the project. So again, anyone could've run into it at any time.

There's also little change I reckon of Jem noticing any of this because the man is far to busy to visit the forum or anything. He's preparing/ rehearsing / programming for the gig. Besides, he didn't seem to notice this thread in the last 15 months. Which I find hard to believe but my guess is he just left us running till we are done.  :)

I will stop spreading the word and stick with presenting it via the calender, k?
Sorry for the confusion.  :)
Title: Re: Frost* Forum Collab Song - the tech thread (TTT!)
Post by: Pedro on December 15, 2011, 10:01:24 AM
Thanks Ron. It's a tad foolish of me I know but then....I still believe in Santa. ;)
Title: Re: Frost* Forum Collab Song - the tech thread (TTT!)
Post by: RWA on December 15, 2011, 10:19:33 AM
Quote from: "Pedro"
Thanks Ron. It's a tad foolish of me I know but then....I still believe in Santa. ;)
Believe in Santa? What's there to believe? What are you implying?!  :shock:
Title: Re: Frost* Forum Collab Song - the tech thread (TTT!)
Post by: RWA on December 24, 2011, 10:02:59 AM
After a fully grown elephant pregnancy of 16 months AND 6 days of labor........... we've delivered the baby!  :D
And it's still not fully grown!  :?

It's a monster......  :shock:

Thanks everyone so far. More to come next year I reckon.  8-)
Title: Re: Frost* Forum Collab Song - the tech thread (TTT!)
Post by: Mooncat on December 24, 2011, 10:26:57 AM
Quality guys, absolute quality.

I know how difficult it is to get 4 people who play together regularly to sound cohesive in the studio, so to acheive it via the internet is truly a credit to everyone involved.

Now sit back, relax and have a mice pie  ;)
Title: Re: Frost* Forum Collab Song - the tech thread (TTT!)
Post by: Trapezium Artist on December 24, 2011, 11:17:52 AM
Quote from: "Mooncat"
Now sit back, relax and have a mice pie  ;)

A mice pie, Mooncat? Under the assumption that the dropped "n" was deliberate, I feel compelled to point out that when animals are dragooned into filling the bellies of humans in pie, stew, or any other food product, they're usually referred to in the singular. So, a mouse pie, perhaps, but mice pie never.

Yes, I live in a bed designed by MŲbius and I always get out of the wrong side of it ...  ;)
Title: Re: Frost* Forum Collab Song - the tech thread (TTT!)
Post by: Mikey on December 24, 2011, 11:26:46 AM
Quote from: "Trapezium Artist"
So, a mouse pie, perhaps, but mice pie never.

Mouse, run and hide, they're after you
Title: Re: Frost* Forum Collab Song - the tech thread (TTT!)
Post by: Pedro on December 24, 2011, 01:44:01 PM
Quote from: "Trapezium Artist"
Yes, I live in a bed designed by MŲbius and I always get out of the wrong side of it ...  ;)
You're lucky to get out at all! :)
Title: Re: Frost* Forum Collab Song - the tech thread (TTT!)
Post by: Trapezium Artist on December 24, 2011, 05:29:42 PM
Quote from: "Pedro"
Quote from: "Trapezium Artist"
Yes, I live in a bed designed by MŲbius and I always get out of the wrong side of it ...  ;)
You're lucky to get out at all! :)

Oh, my MŲbius bed has a side to get out of, but only one of them ...  ;)

There are nevertheless mornings when I'm quite taken with the idea of staying in the bed and I suspect tomorrow will be one of them ... bah, humbug!  8-)
Title: Re: Frost* Forum Collab Song - the tech thread (TTT!)
Post by: rogerg on December 24, 2011, 07:04:55 PM
Special thanks to you, Ron!!  it wouldn't have happened but for your perseverance!!

thanks you!!  8-)
Title: Re: Frost* Forum Collab Song - the tech thread (TTT!)
Post by: mikebass on December 25, 2011, 11:07:44 AM
I had almost forgotten about this until I checked the advent calendar. I have a new pc and haven't got any of my recording stuff sorted but if anymore bass is needed I'm sure I can get everything sorted soon.
Title: Re: Frost* Forum Collab Song - the tech thread (TTT!)
Post by: RWA on December 28, 2011, 08:53:08 AM
Quote from: "mikebass"
I had almost forgotten about this until I checked the advent calendar. I have a new pc and haven't got any of my recording stuff sorted but if anymore bass is needed I'm sure I can get everything sorted soon.
JIB is working on bass right now so perhaps pm him to sort something out.



Current FFCS 13 status: 100 downloads reached today and counting!  :)
Title: Re: Frost* Forum Collab Song - the tech thread (TTT!)
Post by: RWA on January 03, 2012, 10:17:39 AM
Hey ho and happy new year to everyone!  :D

Right.

Iíve given it a lot of thoughtÖ and Iíve decided itís time for me to step back from the FFCS.
Main reasons (in random order):

One could consider it pretty much done. Of course it is never really done and you could continue expending this thing for years to come. But Iím pretty much done with it. I know some are still working on stuff (or planning it) but that will always be the case. I really hope someone else takes over from here.

I've been 'in command' of this for about 16 months. Itís healthy for someone else to take over. It will lead to new perspectives and new directions.

I have a lot coming up this year and want to finish and release a lot of stuff. Working on the FFCS has taken a lot of time and Iím always short on time!




Iíll keep the FFCS project up on box.net. I will mix down all the individual tracks and put those up there as well. Together with the screen images, tempo track and video anyone can import the stuff into their own DAW and continue it. Or re-mix it. Or whatever. Itís yours from now on.

Think nothing of it.  :)
Itís just time for me to step back from this and move on. I will bother you with many releases to come, donít worry.  ;)
Title: Re: Frost* Forum Collab Song - the tech thread (TTT!)
Post by: E.S. on January 03, 2012, 11:45:36 AM
Let me just say that the work you have done is awesome! Thank you so much! And I totally understand the need to move on.

If everyone involved are OK with it, I volunteer to take over the production part. I'm also a busy musician, but it's always possible to do a bit of work now and then. Also for FFCS2, if or when that happens. I actually have a tiiiny idea for that... but we'll see.  :)

I'm a Cubase user myself, so the transition should be relatively painless. I can even use the master project file if needed.
Title: Re: Frost* Forum Collab Song - the tech thread (TTT!)
Post by: Pedro on January 03, 2012, 12:05:37 PM
HUGE thanks to Ron. We had more of your time than we deserved, much appreciated.
New thanks to ES,it would be good to let people finish off their bits for FFCS#1.
Excited by the idea of a new track/project too. :)
Title: Re: Frost* Forum Collab Song - the tech thread (TTT!)
Post by: Mikey on January 03, 2012, 12:37:17 PM
Quote from: "Pedro"
HUGE thanks to Ron. We had more of your time than we deserved, much appreciated.
New thanks to ES,it would be good to let people finish off their bits for FFCS#1.
Excited by the idea of a new track/project too. :)
Word
Title: Re: Frost* Forum Collab Song - the tech thread (TTT!)
Post by: Drarok on January 03, 2012, 10:44:24 PM
I'd like to add my thanks to all involved, but especially Ron. Onwards and upwards, eh? :D
Title: Re: Frost* Forum Collab Song - the tech thread (TTT!)
Post by: fitzy on January 03, 2012, 11:31:46 PM
Really enjoyed FFCS ;),congrats to everyone involved,and look forward to your new music Ron!
Title: Re: Frost* Forum Collab Song - the tech thread (TTT!)
Post by: RWA on January 03, 2012, 11:32:34 PM
Quote from: "E.S."
I'm a Cubase user myself, so the transition should be relatively painless. I can even use the master project file if needed.
I'll upload the entire project folder as well for you. You might run into some plugin errors (no two DAW's are alike,eh) but you will have all the midi and automation redo to go.  :)
Title: Re: Frost* Forum Collab Song - the tech thread (TTT!)
Post by: rogerg on January 04, 2012, 02:15:38 AM
I will add my thanks and congrats to Ron as well; it wouldn't have happened without you!!  

I bow down to you, good sir!!

and thanks to all who joined in, what a blast!
Title: Re: Frost* Forum Collab Song - the tech thread (TTT!)
Post by: RWA on January 05, 2012, 11:21:22 AM
I've exported all individual parts as 16 bit wav. files and packed them. They're in the FFCS_version_13 folder.
http://www.box.com/ffcs#/ffcs/%5Bobject ... /159574117 (http://www.box.com/ffcs#/ffcs/%5Bobject%20Object%5D/159574117)

If you import these into your audio program you're ready to go. I didn't use compression/limiting on the tracks like I did with the final mix. So the individual parts are a bit lower in volume because they haven't been 'pumped' to the usual high volume of an end mix. This way you can master it the way you want it.

I've tried to pack and upload the Cubase 5 'mother' file/folder but that one's way to big for that. So I'm burning that to DVD and send it to ES. He can then open it in Cubase 6 and continue with the original audio/midi files and track automation 'n stuff.

Good luck continuing the FFCS and possible new future projects.  :)
Title: Re: Frost* Forum Collab Song - the tech thread (TTT!)
Post by: Mikey on January 05, 2012, 01:11:49 PM
ES, I believe you have the helm.
Title: Re: Frost* Forum Collab Song - the tech thread (TTT!)
Post by: johninblack on January 05, 2012, 03:11:23 PM
Ron, thanks for all the really great work you have done on the project, it is very much appreciated. ES, over to you then. Hope you enjoy being "at the helm".
Title: Re: Frost* Forum Collab Song - the tech thread (TTT!)
Post by: E.S. on January 05, 2012, 03:35:54 PM
Thank you gents! :D

Well, I won't be in charge of the song(s), just taking care of organizing and production. Everyone should own an equal share, of course.
Title: Re: Frost* Forum Collab Song - the tech thread (TTT!)
Post by: fitzy on January 12, 2012, 11:30:21 AM
Quote from: "E.S."
Thank you gents! :D

Well, I won't be in charge of the song(s), just taking care of organizing and production. Everyone should own an equal share, of course.
No pressure then E.S.. :)Good luck with it mate!
Title: Re: Frost* Forum Collab Song - the tech thread (TTT!)
Post by: Pedro on January 12, 2012, 12:46:02 PM
Quote from: "E.S."
Thank you gents! :D

Well, I won't be in charge of the song(s), just taking care of organizing and production. Everyone should own an equal share, of course.
True, but as the man with the scissors it naturally falls to you to make some decisions about the way forward....like how Ron rejected my 8 minute spoons solo... ;)
Title: Re: Frost* Forum Collab Song - the tech thread (TTT!)
Post by: RWA on January 12, 2012, 01:07:16 PM
Quote from: "Pedro"
Quote from: "E.S."
Thank you gents! :D

Well, I won't be in charge of the song(s), just taking care of organizing and production. Everyone should own an equal share, of course.
True, but as the man with the scissors it naturally falls to you to make some decisions about the way forward....like how Ron rejected my 8 minute spoons solo... ;)
The world just wasn't ready for that.....  ;)
Title: Re: Frost* Forum Collab Song - the tech thread (TTT!)
Post by: Mikey on January 12, 2012, 01:59:34 PM
Quote from: "RWA"
Quote from: "Pedro"
Quote from: "E.S."
Thank you gents! :D

Well, I won't be in charge of the song(s), just taking care of organizing and production. Everyone should own an equal share, of course.
True, but as the man with the scissors it naturally falls to you to make some decisions about the way forward....like how Ron rejected my 8 minute spoons solo... ;)
The world just wasn't ready for that.....  ;)
So Pedro got the snip
Title: Re: Frost* Forum Collab Song - the tech thread (TTT!)
Post by: E.S. on January 12, 2012, 02:17:51 PM
But on my watch, spoons might just happen. Or any kind of kitchen device.  :D
Title: Re: Frost* Forum Collab Song - the tech thread (TTT!)
Post by: Pedro on January 12, 2012, 07:45:08 PM
Quote from: "RWA"
Quote from: "Pedro"
Quote from: "E.S."
Thank you gents! :D

Well, I won't be in charge of the song(s), just taking care of organizing and production. Everyone should own an equal share, of course.
True, but as the man with the scissors it naturally falls to you to make some decisions about the way forward....like how Ron rejected my 8 minute spoons solo... ;)
The world just wasn't ready for that.....  ;)
True, true....  :)
Title: Re: Frost* Forum Collab Song - the tech thread (TTT!)
Post by: E.S. on January 30, 2012, 10:51:52 AM
Right. Now that we have recovered from our New Year hangovers.. :mrgreen:

In my opinion, this thing is as good as finished. Obviously the song itself has come to an end, there's only missing parts, like the JiB bass parts, and Hippo had some vox going on, is that right? Would be splendid to get them into the song.

I'd also do an alternative mix of it, just to have a little fun. Of course I'm a bit busy too with 3 releases in the works, but I'll do a little here and there whenever I can, and when an update is needed. :)
Title: Re: Frost* Forum Collab Song - the tech thread (TTT!)
Post by: RacingHippo on January 30, 2012, 01:00:12 PM
Quote from: "E.S."
...and Hippo had some vox going on, is that right? Would be splendid to get them into the song.
It all needs re-recording with decent gear (and being able to hear myself properly!)
At the mo I'm snowed under with the W-thing, but hoping to start getting more time for things I actually WANT to do in a couple of weeks...
Title: Re: Frost* Forum Collab Song - the tech thread (TTT!)
Post by: Pedro on January 30, 2012, 01:50:57 PM
I really wanted to find a way to describe the guitar rinse I had in mind for one section but other than "you know, like JM would do" I can't think how to do it. I certainly can't play it!
I could try to build it note by note in midi but I'm not even sure where to start...
This might just remain a dream.  :?

Anyway, I think there might be scope to do a "radio edit" of it which, you never know, might one day get an airing on Gonzo's show or The European Perspective?
Title: Re: Frost* Forum Collab Song - the tech thread (TTT!)
Post by: E.S. on January 30, 2012, 02:48:59 PM
A prog radio edit? We have to make it even longer then. :D
Title: Re: Frost* Forum Collab Song - the tech thread (TTT!)
Post by: rogerg on January 30, 2012, 11:42:55 PM
Quote from: "E.S."
A prog radio edit? We have to make it even longer then. :D


heh
Title: Re: Frost* Forum Collab Song - the tech thread (TTT!)
Post by: Mikey on January 31, 2012, 06:33:56 AM
Pedders is itching to do a spoon edit