Frost*ies

Frost* => Frost* => Topic started by: owen on June 04, 2016, 11:26:31 PM

Title: JM strikes back
Post by: owen on June 04, 2016, 11:26:31 PM
http://www.progressiveears.org/forum/showthread.php/16458-Frost*-Falling-Satellites-released-May-27-2016/page4

I'm not a member of progears but I have a look from time to time. Someone's had a go at Blunders and John responded. Well worth a read. Probably well worth joining progears just to agree. But I suspect it'll be a few days before we were let in,

Get in John!
Title: Re: JM strikes back
Post by: JakeWorrell on June 05, 2016, 12:59:41 AM
Haha, great response!

Craig is clearly an excellent drummer. The average drummer probably plays in unsigned bands, exclusively in 4/4. There's nothing wrong with at of course, but it just goes to show that average is a poor choice of word. I can only assume that the guy on the forum is confusing "average" and "not to my taste".
Title: Re: JM strikes back
Post by: lyn on June 05, 2016, 01:30:53 AM
F***wits 8)
Next...
Title: Re: JM strikes back
Post by: rogerg on June 05, 2016, 01:56:57 AM
Nice to see that Pedro waded in, too.  ;D
Title: Re: JM strikes back
Post by: Fogeyspasm on June 05, 2016, 04:57:20 PM
Well done John.
Fu*kwits abound.
Title: Re: JM strikes back
Post by: BrendanGee on June 05, 2016, 05:15:59 PM
Well put, John.
Judging by some the posts on that thread I don't think I would enjoy frequenting that forum.
I'll stick to this one, got a much nicer bunch of people.  ;D

Title: Re: JM strikes back
Post by: owen on June 05, 2016, 07:59:56 PM
I know. They apologize for going off topic. I had to apologize for going back to it

Ps is apologize spelt with a z? It doesn't look right to me, but my ipad insists it's right. Please don't answer if you're American. Nonresident of you lot can spell for toffee ;)
Title: Re: JM strikes back
Post by: owen on June 05, 2016, 08:01:46 PM
Nonresident? I've never used that word in my life. Where does it get that from? What it should say is "none of..."
Title: Re: JM strikes back
Post by: BrendanGee on June 05, 2016, 11:08:06 PM
I would tend to use the 's' form as it is the general UK thing to do. Though I found this in a little Google search:

"Apologize is the preferred spelling in American and Canadian English, and apologise is preferred in varieties of English from outside North America. This is the case despite the fact that apologize is the original form and was once standard even in British English (and is still used by some British publishers).

Traditionally, verbs whose roots have origins in Greek take the -ize suffix, and apology is of Greek origin, so it took –ize when it first came to English in the 16th century. Apologise emerged as a variant fairly early in the word’s history, but it only recently became the preferred spelling outside North America..."
Title: Re: JM strikes back
Post by: Trapezium Artist on June 05, 2016, 11:37:24 PM
There are a great many -ise/-ize words, and the generally held belief is that proper practise in English (as opposed to American) is to use the -ise form.

The broad myth is that the -ise forms stem from French and don't do as good a job of representing the pronunciation as the -ize forms. Then, the myth continues, the switch occurred to -ize forms in America in the same way as simplying neologisms such as "nite", "thru", "color", and so on were introduced, in one of those periodic attempts to reform English spelling.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/English-language_spelling_reform (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/English-language_spelling_reform)

Only problem is, it's bollocks. The -ize forms are documented in English writing (as opposed to American) as early as the 15th century, far earlier than -ise forms which only cropped up 300 years later. This is why the Oxford University Press actually uses the -ize forms as standard:

http://blog.oxforddictionaries.com/2011/03/ize-or-ise/ (http://blog.oxforddictionaries.com/2011/03/ize-or-ise/)

That said, there are a number of English verbs which must have an -ise ending in both English and American, because of their origin in other languages. These include words like "comprise", "promise", and "exercise". And there are still some words that take yet another form, namely -yse, including "analyse", although these are all spelled with -yze forms in American.

http://www.oxforddictionaries.com/words/ize-ise-or-yse (http://www.oxforddictionaries.com/words/ize-ise-or-yse)

Oh, and then there's "programme" and "program": interesting rant by Richard Dawkins on that topic in one of his older books, and not in the way you'd imagine.

Finally, FWIW and the OED notwithstanding, I personally insist on the -ise forms. Because I'm like that.
Title: Re: JM strikes back
Post by: owen on June 06, 2016, 06:40:06 AM
Well that's what I thought. I think it's the horrible other keyboard that constantly suggests words. Apologise seems to type well enough on the normal keyboard. Right, decision made, I'm dumping it. I apolgise for "apologizing"
Title: Re: JM strikes back
Post by: Rook on June 06, 2016, 07:48:19 AM
Its too late to apologise; too laaaaaaate...

What I mean is my iPhone recommend apologise and is set to English (Australian)
Title: Re: JM strikes back
Post by: owen on June 06, 2016, 08:32:01 AM
Yeah, it's SwiftKey, which has written some right garbage for me (I mean worse than the stuff I come out with unaided)
Title: Re: JM strikes back
Post by: Rook on June 06, 2016, 10:55:19 AM
Autocorrect and predictive text can come out with some strange stuff, sometimes better than what passes for lyrics in a lot of commercial music.. Here is what it makes up from Frost... All I chose was the occasional secondary offering and where to put the carriage returns:

Frosted the best of the day before
I don't think that I have a great way of the day
The day before I get a follow back on my way
I'm at a time when you are so much better

I'm so excited to be the first
I'm at a time when you are so cute
The only thing that would make me feel better
The only way you can get it right

(Keyboard mash autocorrect section:)

Remember nights like his mind
By knowing we join us
See just how easy it is
Oh my word

Ha, that went kind of Jon Anderson there.

Title: Re: JM strikes back
Post by: tigermoth on June 06, 2016, 10:54:00 PM
Lollage!  JM probably didn't need to go there, but that was jolly funny all the same. :) :)
Title: Re: JM strikes back
Post by: tigermoth on June 06, 2016, 10:58:03 PM
I am a member of that page, but it's been that long since I signed in that I can't remember my details. But I don't feel a great erge to go back there. :)
Title: Re: JM strikes back
Post by: johninblack on June 06, 2016, 11:37:42 PM
I am a member of that page, but it's been that long since I signed in that I can't remember my details. But I don't feel a great erge to go back there. :)

It has a reputation for being home to a few of the persons that my signature was aimed at. I very rarely go there myself and am told "it's better than it used to be"
Title: Re: JM strikes back
Post by: kyuwert on June 07, 2016, 02:52:51 AM
Man, really? I mean I understand that we love Blunders here and all, but this guy's post could be boiled down to "I really liked Craig on this album, even though I'm not a fan of his work in general..." He didn't even make a single assertive statement about Craig, starting every thought with "I think" or "I feel". Where does he say "Blunders sucks!!!"? I understand the issue is that the dislike was aimed at him from a technical perspective, and it came across as the equivalent of saying you don't think Jem's a good keyboard player because you don't like his solos. We're not all perfectly objective though, are we?
Title: Re: JM strikes back
Post by: owen on June 07, 2016, 06:45:19 AM
I think that if he'd said that it wouldn't be a problem. It was the "average" comment that JM took offence at. Blunders, as a drummer is anything but average. And if statements like that remain unchallenged it's not just some vague statement. It's something that affects his rep and therefore his ability to get further work.
Title: Re: JM strikes back
Post by: Rook on June 07, 2016, 08:10:41 AM
The only ways Blunders could be considered an average drummer are in things like height, age, weight and gender.
Title: Re: JM strikes back
Post by: Mikey on June 07, 2016, 03:50:46 PM
I think that if he'd said that it wouldn't be a problem. It was the "average" comment that JM took offence at. Blunders, as a drummer is anything but average. And if statements like that remain unchallenged it's not just some vague statement. It's something that affects his rep and therefore his ability to get further work.
Blunders is so average even Paiste, Roland & Mapex don't...............oops, that buggers that arguement  :) :) :) :)
Title: Re: JM strikes back
Post by: kyuwert on June 07, 2016, 04:41:40 PM
I think that if he'd said that it wouldn't be a problem. It was the "average" comment that JM took offence at. Blunders, as a drummer is anything but average. And if statements like that remain unchallenged it's not just some vague statement. It's something that affects his rep and therefore his ability to get further work.

I agree about it being unchallenged, and JM certainly corrected that. The direct quote from the offender was "I'm not a fan, I feel his work to be fairly average."  I guess I just feel it was a little overkill to collectively shit on this guy who poorly (but politely) articulated his dislike for Blunders when as a musician he's going to have a lot worse critics out there than this guy. IMO, JM's reply was better suited for the guy saying "Craig is a twat who can't drum his way out of a paper bag." Although now I'm looking forward to what we come up with for that one  ;D
Title: Re: JM strikes back
Post by: Fogeyspasm on June 09, 2016, 12:26:18 AM
I'm off to the Austin Allegro owners forum. It's far less confrontational. 8)
Title: Re: JM strikes back
Post by: Mooncat on June 09, 2016, 12:35:27 PM
To be fair though JM has no doubt seen a lot of this since Blunders appointment as Steve Wilson's drummer, a job which JM was consulted on his suitability for.
That and coupled with a recent interview Craig has given where he talks about his struggle with confidence and rejection, I see it as a mate sticking up for someone he believes in, and is a damn good drummer (and human being as well).
Might just be that this was the tipping point and the guy got both barrels.
Title: Re: JM strikes back
Post by: Pedro on June 09, 2016, 09:31:59 PM
Some of the idiots who laid onto CB on FB for not being Marco on the SW tour got both barrels from Nick Beggs.
It's just unnecessary to be so disparaging about a musician who clearly deserves the position in the band.
Title: Re: JM strikes back
Post by: kyuwert on June 09, 2016, 09:35:38 PM
To be fair though JM has no doubt seen a lot of this since Blunders appointment as Steve Wilson's drummer, a job which JM was consulted on his suitability for.
That and coupled with a recent interview Craig has given where he talks about his struggle with confidence and rejection, I see it as a mate sticking up for someone he believes in, and is a damn good drummer (and human being as well).
Might just be that this was the tipping point and the guy got both barrels.

Fair enough, I have seen some of Craig's FB posts about this sort of thing. I hope he knows his talent is real and that so many of us look up to him and love his work.
Title: Re: JM strikes back
Post by: manoncharles on June 18, 2016, 03:42:33 PM
On iPhones and Android phones, if you set to British or Australian English you get "ise" while you get "ize" for American English or "English" (no area specified).

When I learn/teach English in France we are asked to rather use "-ise" (that we call "Cambridge spelling", vs "Oxford spelling" for "-ize") or at least to always use the same form (the worst is not to use "-ize", the worst is to CHANGE in a same text, uhhhhh)

Finally, FWIW and the OED notwithstanding, I personally insist on the -ise forms. Because I'm like that.
Same.
When the same kind of problems happen in French spelling, I always choose the form that's used by old elitist unfun people just like me.
Title: Re: JM strikes back
Post by: D S on June 18, 2016, 06:29:42 PM
If you'd witnessed Blunders playing in Edinburgh last night (especially given that he is still recovering from an op), there is simply NO WAY you would describe him as 'average'. ::) Absolutely world class without a shadow of doubt.  8)
Title: Re: JM strikes back
Post by: BrendanGee on June 18, 2016, 10:20:30 PM
Agreed, my jaw hit the floor at least 5 times.
Title: Re: JM strikes back
Post by: Jem on June 20, 2016, 11:37:54 PM
In defence of my mate Craig, I therefore now feel moved to say that the drums on Million town were PROGRAMMED by me!!! They always were. I would be happy to share the midi files with that bloke who thinks Andy's drum work on Milliontown was far superior. LOL!!

This isn't new news btw, I've spent many years talking about being stuck in a shed during the winter programming drum fills in interviews.


Title: Re: JM strikes back
Post by: Jem on June 20, 2016, 11:39:48 PM
BTW, I should also also point out that TBE didn't exactly cover himself in shame live when he was in the band either.  ;)
Title: Re: JM strikes back
Post by: Trapezium Artist on June 21, 2016, 08:25:41 AM
BTW, I should also also point out that TBE didn't exactly cover himself in shame live when he was in the band either.  ;)

Having seen 67% of Frost*'s live drummers play personally (did Mr d'Virgilio only play at Frost*fest?), I can only agree with The Boss wholeheartedly.

That said, I think perhaps we're in danger of investing a little too much energy in this: you can't ever, ever win against trolls, and they will only slink back into the darkness if deprived of the oxygen of publicity.

Shall we declare this thread duly closed?
Title: Re: JM strikes back
Post by: owen on June 21, 2016, 09:07:52 AM
As long as we can reopen it if JM goes off on one again!
Title: Re: JM strikes back
Post by: gr8gonzo on June 25, 2016, 01:29:23 AM
BTW, I should also also point out that TBE didn't exactly cover himself in shame live when he was in the band either.  ;)

Indeed. He also played a mean oboe solo.
Title: Re: JM strikes back
Post by: Pedro on June 26, 2016, 01:02:04 AM
Dear Mr. Jem sir,
You're right, "this shouldn't be brand new news" about the drum sounds on Milliontown, but didn't TBE record at least some drums for Milliontown? Or was Silhobbit's video of him at Outhouse (with you telling him "you're sh*t and you know it"  :)) just a non-recording visit by him?
Further to that, I saw an interview with TBE about playing drums on Magenta's Twenty Seven Club in which he said (something like) how he much preferred doing longer takes that captured the natural variability in his performance rather than doing several small takes which were then assembled in a computer and all the sounds were replaced.
So was the programming of drums on Milliontown that you refer to actually "sound replacement" or did you "re-perform" them too? We have all seen how damned impressive you are at drums on the keyboard!