Frost*ies

Frost* => Toys => Topic started by: eviani on February 10, 2009, 05:08:51 PM

Title: Milliontown Cover Questions
Post by: eviani on February 10, 2009, 05:08:51 PM
Well, first off, I'm new to the forum so hey everyone!


I got hooked on Frost* in September and they've run my life since then...to the point that I want to tackle covering Milliontown on my Fantom.  The hardest part of this for me, besides programming those epic sounds, is going to be the samples that Jem triggers during the song - like the heartbeats, the words, the different electronic noises...

Does anybody know where I can find those and any/all tabs to the song itself?
Title: Re: Milliontown Cover Questions
Post by: johninblack on February 10, 2009, 05:29:10 PM
Firstly a big Frostie* welcome. Various people have tabbed various bits and pieces. Probably your best bet would be to search the forum, time consuming I know but easier than tabbing it yourself. :mrgreen:
I'm sure a few people will post links to the bits they have worked out.
Title: Re: Milliontown Cover Questions
Post by: eviani on February 10, 2009, 05:55:34 PM
Thanks for the welcome! Any idea about where to look for those samples?
Title: Re: Milliontown Cover Questions
Post by: johninblack on February 10, 2009, 06:10:18 PM
Quote from: "eviani"
Thanks for the welcome! Any idea about where to look for those samples?
I would think the only place to get those exact samples would be from Jem himself unless anyone else knows different.
Title: Re: Milliontown Cover Questions
Post by: eviani on February 10, 2009, 10:54:46 PM
I figured.  I thought they'd have something in the liner notes about where samples were taken from but either he created them himself or he chose to exclude that information.  Bugger.  I suppose you could sample the opening of Milliontown but that's about it as anything within the song would be covered by the instrumentals.

Anybody have any idea what that large organ patch he is using for the hits when the song kicks in?
Title: Re: Milliontown Cover Questions
Post by: rogerg on February 10, 2009, 11:09:27 PM
Quote from: "eviani"
that large organ patch he is using

it comes in a patch?   :shock:
Title: Re: Milliontown Cover Questions
Post by: eviani on February 10, 2009, 11:10:30 PM
Well...no....but that large organ/combo sound he's using.  There's organ, strings and some other sounds in that those hits that make them sound very big and larger than life.  Even with the Frost* Reports I still can't quite figure out what makes up that sound he's using under the lead line.
Title: Re: Milliontown Cover Questions
Post by: wickedwitch on February 10, 2009, 11:26:21 PM
Quote from: "rogerg"
Quote from: "eviani"
that large organ patch he is using

it comes in a patch?   :shock:
:shock:  that was a bit under the belt Rog!!!  :D
Title: Re: Milliontown Cover Questions
Post by: rogerg on February 10, 2009, 11:30:29 PM
Quote from: "wickedwitch"
Quote from: "rogerg"
Quote from: "eviani"
that large organ patch he is using

it comes in a patch?   :shock:
:shock:  that was a bit under the belt Rog!!!  :D

well, I wanted eviani to feel like a member here!

 8-)
Title: Re: Milliontown Cover Questions
Post by: gr8gonzo on February 11, 2009, 03:41:10 AM
I tried the organ patch.  I still had cravings.
Title: Re: Milliontown Cover Questions
Post by: eviani on February 11, 2009, 03:53:35 AM
Har, har, har guys..... ;) Thanks for the welcome lol
Title: Re: Milliontown Cover Questions
Post by: Pedro on February 11, 2009, 07:04:46 AM
Welcome to the madness, eviani!
Some organizations put new members through bizarre and pun-ishing initiations....you just made it through yours!  :lol:
There is still a chance that Jem might find time to post an answer, but in the meantime, help yourself to the biscuits.  :)
Title: Re: Milliontown Cover Questions
Post by: eviani on February 11, 2009, 01:52:55 PM
Quote from: "gr8gonzo"
I tried the organ patch.  I still had cravings.

Well, I'm not sure any patch can help you if you're having cravings for organs...
Title: Re: Milliontown Cover Questions
Post by: leelustig on February 24, 2009, 06:55:55 AM
Quote from: "eviani"
I figured.  I thought they'd have something in the liner notes about where samples were taken from but either he created them himself or he chose to exclude that information.  Bugger.  I suppose you could sample the opening of Milliontown but that's about it as anything within the song would be covered by the instrumentals.

Anybody have any idea what that large organ patch he is using for the hits when the song kicks in?
hmm.. i know what youre talking about but im not so sure its an organ he's using. then again, i have a weird ear. i hear lucious caverns from the korg x-50, but that may be too obscure... hmm... sounds like bells and strings to me with a very FROSTY wintery-kinda vibe...

I have been literally no help. i'm sorry.
Title: Re: Milliontown Cover Questions
Post by: eviani on February 24, 2009, 12:27:44 PM
Quote from: "leelustig"
Quote from: "eviani"
I figured.  I thought they'd have something in the liner notes about where samples were taken from but either he created them himself or he chose to exclude that information.  Bugger.  I suppose you could sample the opening of Milliontown but that's about it as anything within the song would be covered by the instrumentals.

Anybody have any idea what that large organ patch he is using for the hits when the song kicks in?
hmm.. i know what youre talking about but im not so sure its an organ he's using. then again, i have a weird ear. i hear lucious caverns from the korg x-50, but that may be too obscure... hmm... sounds like bells and strings to me with a very FROSTY wintery-kinda vibe...

I have been literally no help. i'm sorry.


Hahaha.  No worries.  I hear those sounds too but there is a definitely an organ in that.  Just listen to the album when it comes in after the quiet piano opening.  It's a whole mix of delightful and wonderful noises...I guess it will just have to be trial and error.
Title: Re: Milliontown Cover Questions
Post by: DannySoisSage on February 24, 2009, 01:18:31 PM
I'm no keyboarder (although I am tempted by it tbh), but surely half the fun is in trying to create the sounds yourself? Covers aren't about sounding the same, you could make a completely awesome version of Milliontown that doesn't sound anything like Jem's, patch wise.

Especially with someone like Jem who layers sounds like rich tea's for dunking, it sounds like a lot of fun trying to come up with your own interpretations (that you then send to us :mrgreen: )
Title: Re: Milliontown Cover Questions
Post by: eviani on February 24, 2009, 01:26:34 PM
Quote from: "DannySoisSage"
I'm no keyboarder (although I am tempted by it tbh), but surely half the fun is in trying to create the sounds yourself? Covers aren't about sounding the same, you could make a completely awesome version of Milliontown that doesn't sound anything like Jem's, patch wise.

Especially with someone like Jem who layers sounds like rich tea's for dunking, it sounds like a lot of fun trying to come up with your own interpretations (that you then send to us :mrgreen: )

Well I typed out a huge response and the internets ate it.  Damn.

Okay -

1) Hadn't thought about making my own version of this, although certainly I would like to.  Maybe an all piano/vocals cover of this would be interesting.  I would probably have to cut some parts out but it would be interesting to see how this goes turned into a simpler/shorter song.  Or maybe not.  :-P Who knows!

2) My classical inclination is to learn the original and then create my own cover.  If I can go through and make approximations of what he is playing on keyboards and play with the recording, then from there I can start thinking about how to transfer that onto solo piano.  That's just what I'm used to.

3) Try the keyboards.  Go.  They're powerful.  They will consume you till your dear dead days.  (Okay corny, sorry!)

4) This could turn out to be a fun summer project.  I should probably work on transcribing the song itself first before I start creating patches.  That way I have a visual reference for what part of the song I'm in.  Seeing as how some of you have transcribed some parts already, it makes that portion of the job a tad easier.
Title: Re: Milliontown Cover Questions
Post by: Jem on February 24, 2009, 05:21:00 PM
Hello mate, what Fantom have you got?
Title: Re: Milliontown Cover Questions
Post by: eviani on February 24, 2009, 05:28:44 PM
Quote from: "Jem"
Hello mate, what Fantom have you got?

Oh wow, hey! How are you doing?

I have a Fantom X8.
Title: Re: Milliontown Cover Questions
Post by: Jem on February 25, 2009, 08:06:48 AM
okey dokey, couple of extra questions then, do you have the SRX07 expansion board and some midi bass pedals?

I can send you the patch and sample data for when I did the set on the Fantom X7, but you'll need the 2 aforementioned items to play it properly. The organ sounds were off the SRX07 and I used to assign samples to the pedals too to accompany the keyboard playing mayhem.

I've streamlined it down since then into something a little more manageable on the G6, but the X7 set was the Milliontown "full fat" version. You'll be a superstar if you can tame it. I never did!! :lol:
Title: Re: Milliontown Cover Questions
Post by: Pajter on February 25, 2009, 08:51:50 AM
After reading that, I wish I had a Fantom. :(
Title: Re: Milliontown Cover Questions
Post by: eviani on February 25, 2009, 12:17:11 PM
Quote from: "Jem"
okey dokey, couple of extra questions then, do you have the SRX07 expansion board and some midi bass pedals?

I can send you the patch and sample data for when I did the set on the Fantom X7, but you'll need the 2 aforementioned items to play it properly. The organ sounds were off the SRX07 and I used to assign samples to the pedals too to accompany the keyboard playing mayhem.

I've streamlined it down since then into something a little more manageable on the G6, but the X7 set was the Milliontown "full fat" version. You'll be a superstar if you can tame it. I never did!! :lol:

Wow!  :shock:

Check your PM Inbox, Jem.  I just sent you a message.  Thank you!
Title: Re: Milliontown Cover Questions
Post by: Bokkie on February 25, 2009, 03:44:22 PM
Quote from: "Pajter"
After reading that, I wish I had a Fantom. :(
me too, just to look at. I can't play keys. ;)
Title: Re: Milliontown Cover Questions
Post by: Tricky on February 25, 2009, 06:01:07 PM
Quote from: "Jem"
okey dokey, couple of extra questions then, do you have the SRX07 expansion board and some midi bass pedals?

I can send you the patch and sample data for when I did the set on the Fantom X7, but you'll need the 2 aforementioned items to play it properly. The organ sounds were off the SRX07 and I used to assign samples to the pedals too to accompany the keyboard playing mayhem.

I've streamlined it down since then into something a little more manageable on the G6, but the X7 set was the Milliontown "full fat" version. You'll be a superstar if you can tame it. I never did!! :lol:

You just wouldn't get this sort of response anywhere else would you?
 :D
The wonder of the internet
The magic of Jem Godfrey
What a combination  ;)
Title: Re: Milliontown Cover Questions
Post by: eviani on February 25, 2009, 06:40:57 PM
Quote from: "Tricky"
Quote from: "Jem"
okey dokey, couple of extra questions then, do you have the SRX07 expansion board and some midi bass pedals?

I can send you the patch and sample data for when I did the set on the Fantom X7, but you'll need the 2 aforementioned items to play it properly. The organ sounds were off the SRX07 and I used to assign samples to the pedals too to accompany the keyboard playing mayhem.

I've streamlined it down since then into something a little more manageable on the G6, but the X7 set was the Milliontown "full fat" version. You'll be a superstar if you can tame it. I never did!! :lol:

You just wouldn't get this sort of response anywhere else would you?
 :D
The wonder of the internet
The magic of Jem Godfrey
What a combination  ;)

It is an incredibly generous offer on his part - something I was not expecting at all!  I can't to load this up in the Fantom (when he sends it over) and see how it's all laid out.  I"m missing the SRX07 expansion, but I'll sub in a different organ sound in the meantime since it is a big portion of some of the sounds in the song.

Honestly, I was not expecting that.  I'm slightly overfilled with joy at the moment  :D  It's actually more than slightly...
Title: Re: Milliontown Cover Questions
Post by: leelustig on February 25, 2009, 07:02:17 PM
you know while we're on the geeky subject..

theres a chance nobody will care about this, but I feel like blabbing...
i spent a little less than an hour the other day programming a performance on my Fantom, for the one part in BLM that goes before and after the guitar solo (before the 'and you know..' part). When I saw that in the geek report I thought it was so awesome. The way there's a low bass note with the high string holding it together, amazing.
only thing i did differently is instead of programming the bells on the sample pads, I just put them on the highest octave of the keys. So fun to play.
Then I had my Korg next to the Fantom, with the lead patch. I learned the guitar solo and rocked out with both boards at once. Sounded different than the album (of course) but it was pretty kickass. I should try and record it... maybe post it here so I can feel good about myself  :lol:
Title: Re: Milliontown Cover Questions
Post by: Pedro on February 25, 2009, 07:23:58 PM
This is a forum like no other....  :)
Title: Re: Milliontown Cover Questions
Post by: eviani on February 25, 2009, 07:33:12 PM
Quote from: "leelustig"
you know while we're on the geeky subject..

theres a chance nobody will care about this, but I feel like blabbing...
i spent a little less than an hour the other day programming a performance on my Fantom, for the one part in BLM that goes before and after the guitar solo (before the 'and you know..' part). When I saw that in the geek report I thought it was so awesome. The way there's a low bass note with the high string holding it together, amazing.
only thing i did differently is instead of programming the bells on the sample pads, I just put them on the highest octave of the keys. So fun to play.
Then I had my Korg next to the Fantom, with the lead patch. I learned the guitar solo and rocked out with both boards at once. Sounded different than the album (of course) but it was pretty kickass. I should try and record it... maybe post it here so I can feel good about myself  :lol:

You should! That would be great.  I'm hoping that I can sub the organ sound that he used for something else on teh Fnatom and then go through and discover the patches and how he arranged it.  I'm terribly excited.  I probably won't have time to film a cover of this until the summer since I'm so busy but I'll need to actually learn the monster of a song before I film it...so this is one step forward I think.  I definitely want to see what you have!
Title: Re: Milliontown Cover Questions
Post by: eviani on February 26, 2009, 02:12:38 AM
well - bugger!

I downloaded the file, listened to some of the samples on my computer while formatting the PC card...salivated...

More salivating...

Go to load the samples from the card...

NOT ENOUGH SPACE!

Well, darn.  Seems that I need to order some ram.  I forgot that I never upgraded to the max (512MB) when I first got this.

So while some samples loaded up into the Fantom, I can't load up the whole thing until the RAM comes...Friday?

Maybe once all the samples are loaded the other question of "How do I access the patches/performances?" will answer itself.  I moved the FANX2.bin and the FANS.SVD file from the card to the same locations in user memory and I got nothing.

I will report back once this is functioning!
Title: Re: Milliontown Cover Questions
Post by: leelustig on February 26, 2009, 05:11:08 AM
sounds like you're takin' care of business there  :lol:
Title: Re: Milliontown Cover Questions
Post by: eviani on February 26, 2009, 05:21:30 AM
Quote from: "leelustig"
sounds like you're takin' care of business there  :lol:


Attempting to.  I think most if not all the problem(s) I am facing will go away when the new ram stick comes in.  Then I can see what happens when it loads everything off the card.

Ideally, once you hit load all songs/samples from the load utility it should just load all the samples and everything and just fire it up right? I hope...lol
Title: Re: Milliontown Cover Questions
Post by: Jem on February 26, 2009, 11:36:54 AM
You have to go to the Utility menu under the "Menu" button and select User restore - restore settings from the memory card.

It'll then prompt you to turn the Fantom on and off again and it should be good to go after that. :D
Title: Re: Milliontown Cover Questions
Post by: eviani on February 26, 2009, 01:25:31 PM
Quote from: "Jem"
You have to go to the Utility menu under the "Menu" button and select User restore - restore settings from the memory card.

It'll then prompt you to turn the Fantom on and off again and it should be good to go after that. :D


Well, that is the one thing I didn't try.  Fancy that.  :D  :shock:

Unfortunately, it still doesn't work.  It's saying "Error: Illegal File" when I load it up.  I basically copied the Roland folder from the file you sent me to the card itself (with the Fantom connected via USB), so I don't understand what kind of illegalness they're spotting...maybe I'll re-download the file and try again.  :?
Title: Re: Milliontown Cover Questions
Post by: Jem on February 26, 2009, 09:29:16 PM
hmmm, weird. It works just fine here on my X6. Have you got V2.10 installed on your 8?
Title: Re: Milliontown Cover Questions
Post by: eviani on February 26, 2009, 09:55:13 PM
Quote from: "Jem"
hmmm, weird. It works just fine here on my X6. Have you got V2.10 installed on your 8?

No, I have V2.00.  I'll upgrade and post back to let you know what happens.  Maybe it's just my stroke of bad luck...thanks for checking back.
Title: Re: Milliontown Cover Questions
Post by: eviani on February 26, 2009, 11:33:14 PM
Installed V2.10 and still no luck.  When I go to Utility--> Restore (from card) it says Error: Illegal File.  I connected to the computer via USB and had the card pop up on the desktop.  Copied the Roland folder from the one you sent me and then pasted it on the card (thereby replacing the one on the card) and tried to load it up like that, same issue.

I'm going to wait until I have the ram come in the mail so maybe it'll load all the samples for me and then I can see what other steps are left for me to do if it still doesn't work by then.

Sad day :(  I was looking forward to this, but getting to listen to some of the samples alone was pretty inspiring in and of itself!

More later when the DIMM comes in the mail...tomorrow?
Title: Re: Milliontown Cover Questions
Post by: Pedro on February 27, 2009, 12:33:12 AM
I tried searching the Roland Clan boards in case I could find the answer and found someone called "eviani" on there with *exactly* the same problem....what are the chances of that, eh?  :)

Hope they can help you or that your extra memory sorts it out. Having such a gift from the Jemster only to have the tech let you down must be particularly gutting.

I have everything crossed fro yuo.... ;)
Title: Re: Milliontown Cover Questions
Post by: eviani on February 27, 2009, 12:59:25 AM
Quote from: "Pedro"
I tried searching the Roland Clan boards in case I could find the answer and found someone called "eviani" on there with *exactly* the same problem....what are the chances of that, eh?  :)

Hope they can help you or that your extra memory sorts it out. Having such a gift from the Jemster only to have the tech let you down must be particularly gutting.

I have everything crossed fro yuo.... ;)

Haha, thanks.  Nobody has responded over there.  I have a feeling that it's not busy with activity.  The last resort is calling Roland and seeing what is preventing me from doing this.
Title: Re: Milliontown Cover Questions
Post by: Pedro on February 27, 2009, 06:37:15 AM
I'm not Fantom-enabled so this waffle might make no sense at all but I can imagine a scenario where the format and folder names need to be "just so" or an unhelpful error message appears.
Have you tried getting the Fantom to blank/format the card (assuming Jem's gems are somewhere safe) and getting the Fantom to write something to it....so it creates the folder structure using the right names and cases for folders and files....and then just replacing the file it wrote with Jem's?
If this fails then you could be fairly sure that it is either something about the file itself or the way you are copying it.
Some systems, even these days, cannot cope with filenames that are not in the ancient 8.3 format (you know.... WONDERL~.MID that kind of thing).
Several years ago I worked on a system where the fileneme was embedded in the file itself so renaming the file on a different computer effectively broke it....you could only rename the file using the system itself.
Erm....I'm out of ideas now....
Title: Re: Milliontown Cover Questions
Post by: eviani on February 27, 2009, 01:19:04 PM
Quote from: "Pedro"
I'm not Fantom-enabled so this waffle might make no sense at all but I can imagine a scenario where the format and folder names need to be "just so" or an unhelpful error message appears.
Have you tried getting the Fantom to blank/format the card (assuming Jem's gems are somewhere safe) and getting the Fantom to write something to it....so it creates the folder structure using the right names and cases for folders and files....and then just replacing the file it wrote with Jem's?
If this fails then you could be fairly sure that it is either something about the file itself or the way you are copying it.
Some systems, even these days, cannot cope with filenames that are not in the ancient 8.3 format (you know.... WONDERL~.MID that kind of thing).
Several years ago I worked on a system where the fileneme was embedded in the file itself so renaming the file on a different computer effectively broke it....you could only rename the file using the system itself.
Erm....I'm out of ideas now....


Yeah, I tried that.  I've reformatted the card a few times through the Fantom to have it rebuilt the file structure correctly and then that's when I replace the folder with what Jem sense.

Come to think of it, the only thing I didn't try was to remove the fanx2.bin file included in the download.  I'm not quite sure what it was, although when I upgraded the Fantom OS to 2.10 the upgrade download came with the fanx2.bin file (approx. 20mb) which is what was used to upgrade the OS.  I'm not wondering if for some reason when it's trying to restore from the card whether that is the file that is in fact causing the problem? I'm not sure.

My ram is out for delivery this morning so I'll see what happens and if all else files, I'll erase the fanx2.bin file since I have the original zip file backed up and I'll see what happens.  The other solutions do include trying different memory cards but I don't have many of those lying around.  I rarely buy CF cards.
 :?

Time to wait for the delivery man...
Title: Re: Milliontown Cover Questions
Post by: Jem on February 27, 2009, 02:09:05 PM
I'm wracking my brains now as it works just fine here with a carbon copy of the files you've got. Are you dropping the entire X7 folder onto the card? As in not taking the files out of the X7 folder?

If so, that'll be what's doing it. The X7 folder is just a carrier folder. The Fantom won't understand it.
Title: Re: Milliontown Cover Questions
Post by: eviani on February 27, 2009, 02:32:02 PM
Quote from: "Jem"
I'm wracking my brains now as it works just fine here with a carbon copy of the files you've got. Are you dropping the entire X7 folder onto the card? As in not taking the files out of the X7 folder?

If so, that'll be what's doing it. The X7 folder is just a carrier folder. The Fantom won't understand it.

No, when the Roland Card pops up on my computer screen (I'm doing this on a PC btw, although maybe I'll try it on my macbook pro later) I copy the "ROLAND" folder (from the X7 folder you sent me) and I copy it to the Roland Card.  When it asks me if I want to replace files, I click yes to all.  I eject the card from the computer, unhook the USB, and then go into MENU--> UTILITY and to User Restore from the Card.  That didn't work so I redid the process over and then rebooted the Fantom before doing the restore, etc.  For some reason, that same message "Error: Illegal File" comes when it's reading the card.  So either, it's the card or it's something that is a problem on my end.

I'll see what happens later.  Thanks Jem for checking this out for me as well, I know you must be very busy at the moment so it means a lot that you're checking back :)
Title: Re: Milliontown Cover Questions
Post by: eviani on March 18, 2009, 07:22:59 PM
Well, unfortunately, I cannot seem to get this to work the way it should.  I have tried it now for almost two weeks and the farthest I've gotten is being able to load the samples into the Fantom and listen to the different samples that are triggered throughout.  I called up Roland today and we went through a few different steps several times and nothing seems to work.

If I try and do a User Restore from the Memory Card, I get "Error: Illegal File" and if I boot up with the card in PC Slot and load all the samples/data on the card, I get all the actual samples but everything in "Performances" and "Patch List" (with the Card Bank selected" shows up as INIT PATCH 001.  For whatever reason, it seems the keyboard demons are against me.

BUT, nevermind that.  Thank you Jem again for your generosity, at least I have the samples to work from and maybe this is a silent message challenging me to figure out how to set it up myself  :D Thanks again for your (Jem) help and for anyone else who offered suggestions.