Rage Against the X Factor

[catherine]

What's "X-Factor"?

[johninblack]

We like X factor here, always watch it if we're at home. I really don't understand why people have such a problem with it. Yes it's a money making machine but what isn't these days. Will I buy the single? F@#k no, it' total shite, most of the winners songs have been but there has been some great entertainment along the way.

[SerFox]

Mr Lady Gaga got last weeks chart No.1

A real person at the middle of the whole X Factor thing, yes, however that real person is not in the real music business, and I doubt they ever will be. It's like a guest pass at a movie studio, you're there but not actually *there*.

Winning some singing competition shouldn't entitle you to an automatic No.1, and it's obvious that it's funded to get it to the No.1 spot so they can make a hefty profit and shift Joe McWhatsisface on so they can get another winner and do it all over again. Heck this year I don't even know his surname,. All I know is it begins with Q..

[DannySoisSage]

Its McElderry, and I would suggest current events show that its not funded to get to number one since it currently isn't number one. If anything its making them even more money as they tsake advantage of the extra publicity surrounding it.

Winning a singing competition doesn't entitle you to a number one, no, but being a bloody good singer who millions of people have been willing to support for the last several months certainly does.

Previous winners Shayne Ward (who has had an entirely successful career since the X Factor), Steve Brookstein (who hasn't), Leona Lewis (who has been wildly successful), Leon Jackson (who hasn't yet but is still working on his music career, the same as everybody else), Alexandra Burke (who so far has been very successful) and now Joe who undoubtedly will. I wouldn't call more than half of the winners having successful careers in music a sham or a 'five minutes of fame' affair since they are mostly all still performing on stages arguably appropriate to their talents (Steve wasn't that good, bless him). Not to mention the high proportion of other participants having careers in the business (Ray, Diana, JLS [who had a number one single the other week], Ruth, Laura, Rhydian, Beverly, Chico *cough* and G4). And no, I didn't need google for any of that! The other Pop Idol winners were Will Young (I believe 12m record sales?) and Michelle McManus, again who wasn't talented enough to make a totally successful music career but has made a successful career for herself nonetheless. Other participants were Darius (who had a successful stint in music and is now I believe a successful theatre actor), Gareth Gates (who has also made a perfectly good living out of music since then) and Sam and (who are now popular children's tv presenters). Even Rik Waller had a top ten single.

Ask any person on the street who Pendragon or Frost* are and they likely won't have a clue. Just because you don't know about somebody or aren't interested in paying them attention, doesn't mean they don't exist or even less that they aren't valid as a musical act. Sometimes they are but they obviously mean something to somebody, and at least as a point of interest for others (i.e. me    )

[Jem]

Its McElderry, and I would suggest current events show that its not funded to get to number one since it currently isn't number one. If anything its making them even more money as they tsake advantage of the extra publicity surrounding it.

Winning a singing competition doesn't entitle you to a number one, no, but being a bloody good singer who millions of people have been willing to support for the last several months certainly does.

Previous winners Shayne Ward (who has had an entirely successful career since the X Factor), Steve Brookstein (who hasn't), Leona Lewis (who has been wildly successful), Leon Jackson (who hasn't yet but is still working on his music career, the same as everybody else), Alexandra Burke (who so far has been very successful) and now Joe who undoubtedly will. I wouldn't call more than half of the winners having successful careers in music a sham or a 'five minutes of fame' affair since they are mostly all still performing on stages arguably appropriate to their talents (Steve wasn't that good, bless him). Not to mention the high proportion of other participants having careers in the business (Ray, Diana, JLS [who had a number one single the other week], Ruth, Laura, Rhydian, Beverly, Chico *cough* and G4). And no, I didn't need google for any of that! The other Pop Idol winners were Will Young (I believe 12m record sales?) and Michelle McManus, again who wasn't talented enough to make a totally successful music career but has made a successful career for herself nonetheless. Other participants were Darius (who had a successful stint in music and is now I believe a successful theatre actor), Gareth Gates (who has also made a perfectly good living out of music since then) and Sam and (who are now popular children's tv presenters). Even Rik Waller had a top ten single.

Ask any person on the street who Pendragon or Frost* are and they likely won't have a clue. Just because you don't know about somebody or aren't interested in paying them attention, doesn't mean they don't exist or even less that they aren't valid as a musical act. Sometimes they are but they obviously mean something to somebody, and at least as a point of interest for others (i.e. me    )

Mate, I like you. You're standing up in this arena and presenting an argument that makes a lot of sense actually, best of all is your positive take on it. Making a living doing music is hard enough as it is, believe me, if you do end up with some success, you get a ton of shite from everyone and it's not that nice tbh. And I have been there. Let them get on with it and good luck to 'em. Take X Factor away and they're just people taking a risk and trying to do something with their lives, as we all are. I don't take back what I said about X Factor (although I've never denied that it is good entertainment/TV if you're so inclined) but I do apologise for not respecting these people's role within it.

Frost house points duly awarded!  

[Jem]

I should also point out that I am quite connected to X Factor and it's derivatives having written or produced for Liberty X, G4, Gareth Gates, JLS, Shayne and Rik Waller. And we did Jess Garlick's Eurovision entry. I think we came 3rd or 4th that year.

[DannySoisSage]

Mate, I like you. You're standing up in this arena and presenting an argument that makes a lot of sense actually, best of all is your positive take on it. Making a living doing music is hard enough as it is, believe me, if you do end up with some success, you get a ton of shite from everyone and it's not that nice tbh. And I have been there. Let them get on with it and good luck to 'em. Take X Factor away and they're just people taking a risk and trying to do something with their lives, as we all are. I don't take back what I said about X Factor (although I've never denied that it is good entertainment/TV if you're so inclined) but I do apologise for not respecting these people's role within it.

Frost house points duly awarded!  

Thanks mate =)

Honestly I agree with everything you said about it, for the people who use it as a vehicle to make money they are essentially exploiting the participants and its a bit nasty. So the hostility towards 'The X Factor' I understand and to a point agree with. But I don't understand hositility towards the people who take part in it, I can't think of any aspiring or even successful musician who wouldn't kill for a slot on tv in front of upwards of 15m viewers who for all their potential flaws have an obvious interest in music (even Macca went for it, god love him!). And the sad fact is, as everybody knows the music industry is very tough and the only way to give deserving (or undeserving) people that opportunity is through businessmen doing their businessy thing.

You can go over the pros and cons of it all day long but I think ultimately there are situations where you can allow yourself to be exploited in order to make a better life for yourself, especially in showbusiness. Look at manufactured pop bands; would we have heard so much of Gary Barlow had nobody seen a money-making opportunity in a boy band?


 

[Pedro]

If it were only about the talent - it would be top telly.
We used to watch it and Pop Idol, Fame Academy, etc.
We have quite a few of the spin-off CDs (Will Young, Gareth Gates, Journey South, Lemar, etc.) but some of the more recent ones just don't do it for me.

These days, it's just too much about the judges and the people who are obviously only there to pad the program out. The obviously contrived disagreements, the duffers who are put through on non-musical grounds possibly to generate tabloid inches or vote-line revenue.
I am probably being cynical but then I can't help but think the programme makers are too.
The public are obviously lining up to absorb the stuff so give 'em what they want, I guess.

BUT (I can't stress this enough) I take nothing away from the people with the genuine talent. and it should be obvious that this includes the people that write the songs. Like I say, if it was only about the people that really had talent it would be great....but it would also only last 4 weeks and it would be canned after one series because the vast majority of the public wouldn't "get" it, the tabloids and goss mags wouldn't have anything to say...etc.

Just my view though - and I think I am failing to make it worth banging on about!

[Cptncanary]

If it were only about the talent - it would be top telly.
We used to watch it and Pop Idol, Fame Academy, etc.
We have quite a few of the spin-off CDs (Will Young, Gareth Gates, Journey South, Lemar, etc.) but some of the more recent ones just don't do it for me.

These days, it's just too much about the judges and the people who are obviously only there to pad the program out. The obviously contrived disagreements, the duffers who are put through on non-musical grounds possibly to generate tabloid inches or vote-line revenue.
I am probably being cynical but then I can't help but think the programme makers are too.
The public are obviously lining up to absorb the stuff so give 'em what they want, I guess.

BUT (I can't stress this enough) I take nothing away from the people with the genuine talent. and it should be obvious that this includes the people that write the songs. Like I say, if it was only about the people that really had talent it would be great....but it would also only last 4 weeks and it would be canned after one series because the vast majority of the public wouldn't "get" it, the tabloids and goss mags wouldn't have anything to say...etc.

Just my view though - and I think I am failing to make it worth banging on about!

I agree with all your points Pedro    This is a well-balanced debate, which to be honest, in not what I intended when I posted the original mesg. I only wanted to see a song in the top 10 with the words 'f*ck you' repeated, over and over and over  :lol:  :lol:

[Pedro]

LOL
Yes, the derail timer went off on this thread a whole ago!

[Geetar]

I am on the side of the mildly dismissive posters here, I would say. The karaoke wing of the contemporary music business has only ever been of interest when it pays a few bills for decent instrumentalists and talented songwriting teams/individuals.

[Tricky]

LOL
Yes, the derail timer went off on this thread a whole ago!

...And did you know that today is the anniversary of the Boston Tea Party - when, to prevent the unloading of tea that was taxed without their consent under the Tea Act, a group of colonists destroyed the tea by throwing it into Boston Harbor.

[johninblack]

LOL
Yes, the derail timer went off on this thread a whole ago!

...And did you know that today is the anniversary of the Boston Tea Party - when, to prevent the unloading of tea that was taxed without their consent under the Tea Act, a group of colonists destroyed the tea by throwing it into Boston Harbor.

Slightly late but about bloody time! :mrgreen:

[johninblack]

Mate, I like you. You're standing up in this arena and presenting an argument that makes a lot of sense actually, best of all is your positive take on it. Making a living doing music is hard enough as it is, believe me, if you do end up with some success, you get a ton of shite from everyone and it's not that nice tbh. And I have been there. Let them get on with it and good luck to 'em. Take X Factor away and they're just people taking a risk and trying to do something with their lives, as we all are. I don't take back what I said about X Factor (although I've never denied that it is good entertainment/TV if you're so inclined) but I do apologise for not respecting these people's role within it.

Frost house points duly awarded!  

Thanks mate =)

Honestly I agree with everything you said about it, for the people who use it as a vehicle to make money they are essentially exploiting the participants and its a bit nasty. So the hostility towards 'The X Factor' I understand and to a point agree with. But I don't understand hositility towards the people who take part in it, I can't think of any aspiring or even successful musician who wouldn't kill for a slot on tv in front of upwards of 15m viewers who for all their potential flaws have an obvious interest in music (even Macca went for it, god love him!). And the sad fact is, as everybody knows the music industry is very tough and the only way to give deserving (or undeserving) people that opportunity is through businessmen doing their businessy thing.

You can go over the pros and cons of it all day long but I think ultimately there are situations where you can allow yourself to be exploited in order to make a better life for yourself, especially in showbusiness. Look at manufactured pop bands; would we have heard so much of Gary Barlow had nobody seen a money-making opportunity in a boy band?


 

Well done DannySoisSage, my views exactly and what I would have posted were I as eloquent in my writing as you.

[Mooncat]

....and of course let's not forget - with the added media attention that this campaign is giving both artists, people who may have not bought his single may now go and get it and the whole thing might just backfire, making Simon even more smug (if that's possible   )