Portamento, how I loathe thee!

[boswell]

Could anybody tell me why it is that on almost every device, plugin or harpsichord that I own does the portamento work only about 2-and-a-bit octaves? (ballpark figure, there)

Pour example:

Let's say we're playing a wicked cool keyboard solo that starts on a low C, then we widdle our merry way up to an octave above. Everything is going smoothly, and so impressed are we that we decide to take things to the next level. That's right. We're going higher baby, and due to our impeccable legato technique/sustain pedal - we haven't yet missed a note and retriggered the sound. Off we go to C4, pummelling our way through the cycle of semitones until, yes, yes, that's it, we're going to climax with a lovely trill and......oooh dear. I'm sorry baby I seem to have gotten stuck on B flat. In fact it's not even B flat, its a few micro tones between B flat and B. And now every subsequent keypress higher than that is the same note: B fllllll---- . Right the way up the keyboard. I swear baby this is the first time it's happened. Ok, it happens every time...

....And it p*sses me off!

Could anybody please explain this phenomenonenon? It doesn't happen in reverse (starting on a high C). It isn't even time dependant. If I play C2, then go straight to C5 - oh! same problem! Grrrrrrrrrrrrrr....rr...

Theories?

[Pedro]

I can offer nothing helpful but don't get wheely cross over Portamento...either bend it to your will or let it slide.

[boswell]

Touché Pedro.

It might be worth mentioning that I can't seem to replicate this now on any of my VST's.

However the Fantom and the Triton still defy me!

[Pedro]

Sorry, force of habit! As you'll know it won't be long until this thread is talking about geological surveys or otter's footwear....

....but in the meantime, I'm not really qualified to give proper keyboard advice but, I just tried portamento on Omnisphere and on my Triton Studio. Both appeared to work correctly between all 88 keys.
I may be missing the point (like I seem to miss nubile Doctor's assistants in photos) but don't seem to get a problem.

I'm happy to try another experiment if it will help.

[boswell]

You've probably already tried this but hold the lowest key, then press the highest. Then let go of both, now press the highest note on it's own. There should be no difference if your portamento is working fine. Mine....well it isn't. On either my Triton or my Fantom X, regardless of patch.

And thanks for taking the time to check  8-)

[Mouse]

I'd just like to say Bos that I love your signature.    :lol:

[boswell]

Haha thanks! That man single handedly ended the cold war with that song, regardless of what the history books say.

And thanks for proving Pedro's earlier point. We're now talking about Soviet Scat Singing  :lol:

[Mouse]

And thanks for proving Pedro's earlier point. We're now talking about Soviet Scat Singing  :lol:

Correction: badly mimed Soviet Scat singing.  

[boswell]

Or to keep with the alliterative theme: Sorely Synchronised Soviet Scat Singing.

[Pedro]

You've probably already tried this but hold the lowest key, then press the highest. Then let go of both, now press the highest note on it's own. There should be no difference if your portamento is working fine. Mine....well it isn't. On either my Triton or my Fantom X, regardless of patch.
And thanks for taking the time to check  8-)

Just tried it and it works fine on my Triton Studio. The fact that two separate keyboards (two separate systems)independently fail in the same way is downright odd. Isn't it? More "Poltergeisto" than Portamento.

[madfiddler]

I think I remember my Korg Trinity having this portamento issue in that is simply couldn't pitch shift the multi-samples out of a certain range.

[Pedro]

Hmm...interesting. I'll try again with a wider range of patches.
I guess that Portamento from the lowest to the highest across 88 keys is a case of sweeping the frequency of the sustained portions of the lowest note all the way up. None of the intermediate samples are involved (this not a glissando after all), so the resulting sound doesn't sound 'real' but if the tone at the end of the sweep is in tune with the highest note then mission accomplished(?). The sweep of my Triton's grand piano patch doesn't much like a piano note on the way up- sweeping 88 notes - but portamento and pianos don't really go together!
On a slightly different tack, I was surprised to find that Dimension Pro (one of the major instruments bundled with Sonar Producer) can't seem to handle pitch-bend at all. Slightest touch on the wheel and the sound disintegrates in a very non-musical, crunchy sound. Makes me wonder if it's a problem with configuration but I expected it to just work.

[boswell]

Whoops, my bad. Turns out it's a TRINITY I have not a Triton. Wishful thinking on my part. It's also not mine, it's on loan from a friend and I've played it all of once! So sorry for the confusion.

It's an old synth so I'd expect a few problems like that, and maybe even chalk them up to memory issues (!?) but a Fantom X? Hmmm.

My Fantom is my main workhorse and I use that more than anything else, which is why I notice the portamento problem as much.

On a slightly different tack, I was surprised to find that Dimension Pro (one of the major instruments bundled with Sonar Producer) can't seem to handle pitch-bend at all. Slightest touch on the wheel and the sound disintegrates in a very non-musical, crunchy sound. Makes me wonder if it's a problem with configuration but I expected it to just work.

I'm afraid I've not got much experience when it comes to wave synthesis, but if it's just essentially modified samples it's bending I can't see why there would be much of a problem. Have you tried it in a different VST host? (Is it a VST? I don't know if Sonar uses VST's or some arbitrary wizardry)

[boswell]

Well I've found the problem. Turns out it was in the intstruction book all along.

The reason the portamento hits a shelf is because I'm using Samples. Pretty much everything in the Fantom (and the Korg too) is sample based, and as such the samples have a limit to which they can be pitch shifted before they start sounding nasty. It seems the synths try to head this problem off at the pass by limiting how far they can be bent, which is what is happening when I use portamento.

As far as the Fantom is concerned, different patches - which use different samples - seem to have different portamento limits.

There doesn't seem to be any workaround for this, except for not playing legato for long dim7 runs a la "In the Cage" and instead try and break the runs. So much for techniquie  :roll:

Bad form Roland, bad form.

[Jem]

I used to experience something similar on my Fantom X's. I think it's something to do with multisamples having finite ranges within the software if they're not retriggered within a few octaves. It never happens on genuine analogue synths or machines that generate pitches in realtime using virtual analogue synthesis in my experience. It only seems to happen with Romplers.

I'd fly up the keyboard on my Fantom X only to have some of the samples "ceiling out" at A3 or something.

The only way round I found was to make sure I briefly got out of legato on the way up. :?