Frost* Forum Collab Song - the tech thread (TTT!)

[RWA]

SERIOUS REQUEST:
please use this thread only for the project itself and the members who participate.
The original thread is for talk / gossip / sidetracking / etc.

>updated on 12-08-10<

Right! Forget about the SoundCloud thing; it doesn't cut it. I've upgraded my Box.net account and that'll be the place for file handling. Here's a short explanation:

The Frost Forum Collab Song Box: how does it work:

There's a work directory that's only accessible by collaborators:
//http://www.box.net/files#/files/0/f/48618802/Frost_Forum_Collab_Song_(FFCS)
As you'll notice you won't have acces to it unless you've been added/invited as a collaborator.

To get access please drop me a pm on the Frost Forum containing your e-mail address. I'll then create your own personal folder and invite you to join. This is for collaborators only.

The public version of the FFCS will be accessible by anyone: //http://www.box.net/ffcs
But it's only to view and download the content.

So in short:
Anyone can listen and download the content on the public page/folder. That means that anything you upload as a collaborator can be listened at and downloaded by anyone. I want to keep that part of the process open. First of all because it's nice for everyone (whether you collab on this or not) to follow what's happening and it's also clear what is used for the song or not. Second because people might wanna jump in later. To be able to do that you have to be able to hear what's been done all ready.

But.... only "approved" collaborators can upload/edit/comment stuff in the FFCS box. This may sound a bit drastic but first of all I want to keep things manageable and second I don't want any bad spirits to mess with the content. Once you get access to the box it means full access as in "moderator/editor". So people who have no business being there can mess up the entire place. To be sure that won't happen I've created the "drop me a pm first" method. Don't worry, any member who requests it will get access and be able to participate. But at least we'll know who he/she is and if he/she is indeed a forum member over here.

That's not short is it?  :mrgreen:
The thing is a project like this is a big thing to handle and it's hard enough as it is to keep track on things. I hope this procedure will make it workable.

--------------------------------
I do have some ideas on an intro using Jem's "Sneeze From Hell" leading into Pedro's section but nothing is set at this moment. If someone has a farking great intro to spare then please do. First thing is to collect pieces that people all ready have and want to contribute to this epic collab. I will then finger out if any of it glues together.

The first 3 months or so are also for people to start working on stuff if they have ideas but nothing on HD yet. Which is the position I'm in myself at the moment. I have some stuff on HD but also have some ideas I still have to record.
Anyway, this is just day 1. So no rush. Just don't wait 6 months to contribute because that might be to late. Let's loosely set the deadline to .... Christmas or so, k?

Any input is appreciated of course!

Some tech specs:
- Files in mp3 are fine the first time around. If I need the wav.file I'll tell you about it.
- It's not forbidden to send wav.files but it's nice to keep the mb's low for now.
- please include tempo (bpm) and time signatures when you upload a file.
- In case of wav.files: 16/24/32 bit is all fine. Just make sure the sample rate is 44,1 kHz.

Go!  :mrgreen:

[Pedro]

Thanks Ron.
We don't have many serious threads so let's respect Ron's request. OK?

[E.S.]

Before anyone starts sending in ideas, maybe we should decide what format it should be in? Wav is obvious, but 16bits? 24bits? I use 24 myself, but others might use 16, or don't even know anything about such things. We should choose a standard to avoid any problems.

And.. please include exact tempo, either in titles or elsewhere. We have to make sure everything is in sync. Use the snap function in your sequencers.

Maybe include project files too, if some uses the same DAWs.

And it's important that no one take it personal if your part is sacked. This is a bloody cruel world we're in, and we have to be prepared for failure. I know it's hard when you're very passionate about what you have written, but hey.. it can always be used for something else, right?  

[RWA]

Before anyone starts sending in ideas, maybe we should decide what format it should be in? Wav is obvious, but 16bits? 24bits? I use 24 myself, but others might use 16, or don't even know anything about such things. We should choose a standard to avoid any problems.

And.. please include exact tempo, either in titles or elsewhere. We have to make sure everything is in sync. Use the snap function in your sequencers.

Maybe include project files too, if some uses the same DAWs.

And it's important that no one take it personal if your part is sacked. This is a bloody cruel world we're in, and we have to be prepared for failure. I know it's hard when you're very passionate about what you have written, but hey.. it can always be used for something else, right?  

Good points! Remember, writing is erasing.
Sometimes the most brilliant (or not so brilliant) part just doesn't fit into a song. Happens to me all the time.

Format: 16 bit 44,1 kHz. Higher bit rates (24 or 32) are fine but no other sample rates. So to all you ProTool users: no 48 KhZ!    btw, it will all  be downgraded to 16 bit 44,1 kHz eventually anyway.

I think we also should limit it to wav.files and possibly midi files. Project files only work if you use the same host and have the same plugins the other person uses.

I'm on Cubase 4 btw. Soon to be upgraded to 5.

[Pedro]

*goes back to re-work intro down to 44.1kHz

Things like exact tempo might be interesting. I could say the intro is 130bpm (cos that's what the DAW was set to) but, listening to it, I should probably have had it set to 65bpm.

Tuning could be another issue. The intro is at my Korg's version of +00 cent 440Hz. Close enough I guess.

How should one present separate parts?

A meaningful filename would be a good start (e.g. FrostEndosIntro_130bpm_24bit.wav).

The intro is a single track and represets 30 bars (in my DAW).
There is no lead-in, no metronome count-in - should there be?

If I then have a separate part for the drums that come in at, say, at the beginning of bar 31, should that be a wav with 30 bars of silence at the start? I guess not...but this then needs a way of describing where the cue should be.

Sonar 8.5 Producer here - only using about 10% of it though.

Interesting. Hope these aren't silly questions.

[RWA]

No they're not silly questions. Silly questions will be deleted from this thread!  

- 130 bpm instead or 65 is the same for me.
- A bit of silence in the beginning and end is always a good thing.
- Don't include click tracks.I'm used to dragging stuff to the right spot as long as I know the tempo.
- If you have specific ideas at where sudden parts should start or end then include that info.
- The described file name method (e.g. FrostEndosIntro_130bpm_24bit.wav) is very clear indeed so keep it along those lines.

- Start off with full versions. Once a part is done I'll ask for the separate tracks (in wav. format). There's no need to go into all that work while a track is still being build. Specially in this early stage.

Once we get going I'll upload a new version every time using a version number and date. That way progress (or digress.....) can be tracked by anyone. I'll probably will be deleting some older files along the way that are all ready included (or not) in the mix to keep the page manageable.

[Pedro]

Ok, the intro bit (just the EPiano) is now in a wav file on SoundCloud.

Sonar offered me a bewildering range of options but I chose to export @44.1khz 16-bit and write a (Microsoft) Wav file with a sub-rate of 16-bit PCM. (I think there might have been options for a flake and strawberry sauce too).

Phew, need a rest now - this collaborating is hard work!
Might do a bit more tomorrow, maybe the first verse (as in the orginal) but I'll re-do the drums first I think, and maybe the organ...and maybe the bass!

[E.S.]

Oh... and if you have midi, please include it. Some things might be hard to learn by ear (especially if everyone is going to play a billion notes a second). We might have to learn it to keep developing the song, maybe write variations on themes etc.

That's a lovely piano theme. Is the original to be found anywhere? I'd love to hear it.

Unless you meant the original Milliontown?  :oops:

[rogerg]

can we make sure that all the tracks on FFCA are downloadable, so we can play with ins-and-outs, etc.?


Logic 8, btw.

[Pedro]

I went with SoundCloud's defaults, I'll fix it.
I'll get the midi up as well. Might have to wait til tonight though (work doesn't half get in the way!).

The theme is from the original Milliontown, right at the very end....secret song #1 if you like! So the writing credit must be to Jem!

[Pedro]

The intro is now downloadable.
The Midi file is available...but SoundCloud (apparently) won't take it.
Where shall we put them?

[RWA]

The intro is now downloadable.
The Midi file is available...but SoundCloud (apparently) won't take it.
Where shall we put them?

Hmm.... midi files seem to be a problem for Soundcloud. It's a place to store music files, not any file format in particular. Perhaps it's an option if anyone needs a midi file he or she sends a pm to the creator and handle it that way. Or we switch to another service. We are still in the beginning of this so if any other upload/download service makes more sense we can go to that.

I have been using Box.net for my file storage also. That one can handle any file format but is limited to 25 mb per file. Which is gonna be a problem for wav.files obviously.

Perhaps we'll have to use both?

[E.S.]

Midi files are tiny, maybe we could just stick to PM and email for that.. or maybe some other filesharing sites.

[EvilDragon]

I suggest using FLAC instead of WAV.  

[rogerg]

I have tons of webspace, so I could host midi files, if you'd like.