Frost* Forum Collab Song - the tech thread (TTT!)

[Phrog]

In that case, I'll throw my hat in the ring too    I'm mainly a guitarist, but am happy to add any other sonic business if required! You'll be getting a PM imminently, RWA.

[gav]

Right chaps! My internet has held together for long enough for me to download the current MP3 of the song, and I'm mightily impressed! Just a suggestion here, what about some big pad chords on the keys with some Mitchell/Boyes esque shred?

Just a thought... :mrgreen:

[RWA]

Uhm... got a bit carried away today!  :shock:
Wrote a new intro section (on top of some of Perdo's e-piano) that included JG and JM. The entire intro is now 4:00 minutes and the song truly kicks off at the rock section. Consider the new intro as my part of the song. I've redone my drums also to make it all more coherent.

The first 4 minutes sound like an overture now. I'm pretty sure some of those parts reprice later in the song/epic.

Had no time to create an image file anymore. If the section stays (if you folks like it that is) I'll upload it tomorrow incl. tim sigs and tempo.

Tell me what you think: FFCS version 3

[El_Mayonnaise]

My ron, you have been busy  

It sounds really good and theres definitely frost sounds everywhere.

Not sold on the JG and JM clips yet though, think the ideas great just maybe using less of them? All constructive criticism I assure you  

But blimey, the rest sounds fantastic

[RWA]

My ron, you have been busy  

Not sold on the JG and JM clips yet though, think the ideas great just maybe using less of them? All constructive criticism I assure you  

But blimey, the rest sounds fantastic

Thanks.  
Yeah, I entered the samples at the end of the afternoon; might need some tweaking. Although I do believe some Frost* madness must be included in this song.  

[Brom]

Well, as we are Frosti*ing this up, (nice work so far everyone!) I'm considering some Tara B type analogue widdlings behind some or Ron's intro. I will keep me quiet, if nothing else!

[RWA]

Version 4--> http://www.box.net/ffcs#/ffcs/1/49613094

Slightly better version. I hope. Better drum sound and I took out most of the vocal sample bits for now to make sure you can hear how the intro's build.

START: bar 1 to bar 4 (dead air for now)
Section 1 = Intro RWA incl. e-piano from Pedro (bar 4 to 58)
Section 2 = Ballad Pedro (bar 58 to 114)
Section 3 = Piano bridge ES (bar 114 to 134)
Section 1 to 3 = the overture for now. Probable will be expended when the song evolves.
Section 4 = Rock section Pedro (bar 134 till infinity)

Take a look at the image file to see how everything fits and where the tempo/tim sign switches are.

The idea so far:
I want to insert some speech samples between 1 and 4.
The song then start with the main theme which is Pedro's e-piano part.
Then the RWA part (section 1) kicks of the overture which goes all the way up to section 4
Section 4 is when the song really kicks off.
Since the overture contains different sections it's likely some of that will reprise later in the song.

Note: to keep the overture coherent I've played the entire drum track. At this moment I also did the drums for section 4 but I think the kick off of that section is  a perfect spot for another drummer to take over.



Right. All good and well. Now, judging/approving some one else's parts is one thing.... approving your own part is awkward! So tell me what you think of my new intro.  If most of you approve it'll stay and I'll upload my individual parts. If it's not then it might just as easily go. Be honest and objective please! If other parts can go... so can mine.

I'm gonna take a break from this for a few days until new ideas and parts are submitted, k?  

[Drarok]

For those that can, would the MIDI recording of drums make more sense, rather than trying to mix several different kits? Not sure if your part was real or not, just a thought. I have electric drums, see.
I'll try to compose a section soon, rather than just stealing others' bits. :lol:

[Pedro]

Thanks Ron. I'll have a listen later on and feedback as best I can.
I still kind of like the idea of the Milliontown closing theme being the first thing heard in this work to sketch the path from there to here, via some themes from the other songs (like Snowman).
Doesn't have to go like that, just my view.

I think I could carry on throwing loads of new parts at this but there's too much of me in there already and I won't put any more up for a while.

Instead I might see if I can further develop the idea that rogerg put up into a viable section to maybe fit later in the piece. Try some new stuff, dodge the presets!

[catherine]

Parts! Har!

[Pedro]

Had a listen to v4 now and I like the way it's shaping up.

I think the intro is better for having more delicately applied vox samples.
Subtle is better I think (alternatively we could all just scream "You are a lion!" over and over and call it Frost* madness!   )

A few things occur to me so far :-
1) I think just a little more of the EP before you part (har!) begins would "connect" better with the last track on the CD.
Hard to describe but if you consider Jem's theme as 32 bars (4 "lines" of 8 where lines 1 and 2 are close to identical), the EP on Version 4 starts at the beginning of the line 3 of the theme. It might sound better if is starts at the beginning of line 2, so 8 bars in instead of 16 bars in. Does that make sense or do I need to post a clip to illustrate?

2) I'm not sure the electirc piano is strong enough to "stand-up" behind your intro. Resting as nicely as your stuff does on the chords, I begin to think that a more robust sound would work better. The EP is ok for the first bit and the ballad bit. Maybe it's ok for the bit between too, I'll listen some more.

3) I think the transition into the ballad bit sounds great but the strings just kinda stop 4 bars in to Jem's theme. I wonder if a longer tail would work better? Could the strings track the chords to a complete fade-out by the 8th bar of the theme?

That's it for now, Nice job.

[RWA]

For those that can, would the MIDI recording of drums make more sense, rather than trying to mix several different kits? Not sure if your part was real or not, just a thought. I have electric drums, see.
I'll try to compose a section soon, rather than just stealing others' bits. :lol:

It's played by me on my e-kit using Toontrack SD2.
You're idea of using midi files makes sense in that it gives me the oppertunity to apply everything to the same kit.

Then again, even within a program like SD2 switching between kits all ready changes the feel of a recording. So if one records midi using, say, a Roland e-kit (using one of the kits included in the module) it might sound a lot different applied to (one of my) SD (software) kits. Then others even might use other drum software. I predict a programming nightmare....  :?
I know from experience stuff I recorded on my TD6 kit using a TD6 module kit sounds rather different once I apply it to a SD (software) kit. Playing the thing all over but using the SD kit this time is usually the way it ends up. One of the major problems that occur are velocity settings. Something played on my kit doesn't automatically agree well with someone elses software kit.

That being said; I'll keep the option open. Anyone who records midi-drums can hand me the midi file. I'll certainly give it a try.

[RWA]

Had a listen to v4 now and I like the way it's shaping up.
I think the intro is better for having more delicately applied vox samples.
Subtle is better I think (alternatively we could all just scream "You are a lion!" over and over and call it Frost* madness!   )

I told you I got carried away!  :lol:
I've been wanting to use those vocal bits for about a year now and threw them into all at the same time.  :roll:
Spooky thing btw is that the JM scream fits perfectly on that spot like it was ment there!

Anyway, sample bits will be dealth with later I'm sure.

A few things occur to me so far :-
1) I think just a little more of the EP before you part (har!) begins would "connect" better with the last track on the CD. Hard to describe but if you consider Jem's theme as 32 bars (4 "lines" of 8 where lines 1 and 2 are close to identical), the EP on Version 4 starts at the beginning of the line 3 of the theme. It might sound better if is starts at the beginning of line 2, so 8 bars in instead of 16 bars in. Does that make sense or do I need to post a clip to illustrate?

2) I'm not sure the electirc piano is strong enough to "stand-up" behind your intro. Resting as nicely as your stuff does on the chords, I begin to think that a more robust sound would work better. The EP is ok for the first bit and the ballad bit. Maybe it's ok for the bit between too, I'll listen some more.

Yes, it's a bit short, ain't it? I've been focussing on the transition to much and forgot how short the ep_intro now was. Good point!

You know..... thinking about both the arguments...... something pops to mind:
What if we restore the lenght of the e-piano section and use it for the intro (before my part) ...... but instead of using that or any other instrument..... it will be vocals?! So that's the entire part but then sung in harmonies (either using "oooh" or "aaaah" or yet to be written lyrics) by the singers involved?! I bet Roger can conduct a thing like that!
Then we'll have the end of that lead into my tapping guitar and off we go.

3) I think the transition into the ballad bit sounds great but the strings just kinda stop 4 bars in to Jem's theme. I wonder if a longer tail would work better? Could the strings track the chords to a complete fade-out by the 8th bar of the theme?

Yes it stops drastically but I did that on purpose. If you look at the version_4_image file you'll see it screams "put goodness here!". The strings might go on a tiny bit longer eventually but I wanted to leave it open for now.I could fill it up but I don't want to. I want other people to make something up.

[rogerg]

You know..... thinking about both the arguments...... something pops to mind:
What if we restore the lenght of the e-piano section and use it for the intro (before my part) ...... but instead of using that or any other instrument..... it will be vocals?! So that's the entire part but then sung in harmonies (either using "oooh" or "aaaah" or yet to be written lyrics) by the singers involved?! I bet Roger can conduct a thing like that!
Then we'll have the end of that lead into my tapping guitar and off we go.

yeah!  now, just please clarify to my addled brain (school starts tomorrow) exactly which e-piano part needs to be vocalised, and we can make that happen!

[RWA]

You know..... thinking about both the arguments...... something pops to mind:
What if we restore the lenght of the e-piano section and use it for the intro (before my part) ...... but instead of using that or any other instrument..... it will be vocals?! So that's the entire part but then sung in harmonies (either using "oooh" or "aaaah" or yet to be written lyrics) by the singers involved?! I bet Roger can conduct a thing like that!
Then we'll have the end of that lead into my tapping guitar and off we go.

yeah!  now, just please clarify to my addled brain (school starts tomorrow) exactly which e-piano part needs to be vocalised, and we can make that happen!

Yah!  :mrgreen:
Uhm... Pedro's original section I reckon. But let him point that out to you exaclty. So I'll leave it to you guys.

Surprise us!