Frost* Forum Collab Song - the tech thread (TTT!)

[Pedro]

Ok. I've had another go with the HyperV solo and tweaked it a little more to fit the structure going on behind a little better.

http://www.box.net/shared/6cfiki37v9

The lead sound is still not stellar though. Years of "Hug-The-Preset" syndrome. :oops:

I'll try harder with the sound if people think it is now tweaked enough to go in "as is".
If it needs more tweaking I'm happy to keep going but I need a break from it for a few days.

What would be really cool is if a pukka keys-playing Frost*ie could take on learning it (or something like it) and then playing it for real. There's a lot of Jem's original nuances in there still but it doesn't feel completely "human" to me in the places where I know I've faked it.   I can upload the midi if that helps.  

[RWA]

Like Pedro I'm trying to hold my horses but it's to much fun!  :?  
Right. Did some work today on the song and so far it seems about 95% of the submitted material finds its way to the song. Make sure you take a look at the image file again to see the details.

VERSION 6:

INTRO. Mike Bass added (partially)  and some pads. The pads are just a suggestion to let it build. The entire intro is still open to suggestion anyway because it might become all vocals anyway.

RWA SECTION. Drums start earlier. Gives the thing an It Bites feel I think.

THE HYPERVENTILATE SOLO! Brilliant move from Pedro. I love it! Cut back on the violins a bit to make it work even better. I've used the midi version of the solo provided by Pedro for now (it is still being altered by others right now) and found a solo sound to play it. It seems to fit nicely except for the bendy part. I can't seem to figure out which bend range Jem uses for the pitch bends.
*sigh*
Which is one of the big questions in life, ain't it? Never mind about global warming or peace in the middle east; I want to know what bend range Jem uses for the Hyperventilate solo!!!!  

TRON stunt double on the e-piano section. This section does need more but I hope others will take care of it. For now I filled it with some tron but it's highly questionable if it fits.  Oh, and Mike bass is used on this section also.

- The bass drum is now in sync with the bass in the ES-snowman section.
- I've used an organ sound for the Roger sequence.

Then my main concern was to see if I could use all 3 provide rock sections and then find a way out of it. To be able to do that I've continued playing drums (again not my wish for the end version; I'll only be doing the drums up to the rock section) and added violins to both the ES-rock section and the Drarok Cruddy section. I break it down after that slowing down from 150 bpm back to 130 bpm to go to the Milliontown/Snowman reprise which has an acoustic feel to it.

Check the image file for the details. The RED sections are suggestions and experiments. They might as easily be deleted or changed or replaced by something better!

K, shoot! --> FFCS version 6

[Pedro]

Wow! Thanks Ron. You have been busy.

I love the Snowman bits. It was inspired of ES to submit that bit and it works so well where you've put it. I like the reurn of it and, while I know it's only my mouse-work and not a proper 12-string, I'm so pleased with how it sounds - although there is a slight fumble I hear in there now - might redo that.

In general I love what you've done with it all. There are some bits that sound "odd", but that may be because I get used to it sounding one way and it takes a while for new versions to sink in.

I think I hear what you mean about drums starting earlier being a bit It Bitesey but I can't help thinking that Mr Dalton would have done a little more that just the three crashes in the build up (maybe closed hat on the beats between?). After the fourth crash, there's of lot of snare-off sound for the next 8 bars. I wonder if this could be a descending tom pattern?
I might try to illustrate this somehow but leave it as jutst my bable for now!

In terms of the new backings for the "main theme", I think the questionable bit might be because two voices are doing the shorter notes in the melody (in red in this highly technical description ) :-
    "Daah, Dah, Duuuh, Da Da Da Daaaah, Da Da Daaaaah".

I think the pitch-bend was only +/- a whole tone (so 2 semitones up and 2 down). I like the sound you've chosen, I'll see if I can find something similar and post just the solo as an mp3.

Hearing all that gives me ideas for additioanl layers here and there so I might have a play tomorrow.  

Onwards....  

[Pedro]

I just uploaded 4 (count them) different "takes" of the HyperJemSolo.
All use the same midi (which I have tidied up a little more) but drive different voices.
One is just a hybrid of the other three voices mashed together.
Hopefully one of these will make a better inclusion in the working piece than that "interestingly pitch-bent" version.  

[RWA]

In general I love what you've done with it all. There are some bits that sound "odd", but that may be because I get used to it sounding one way and it takes a while for new versions to sink in.

Sometimes it needs multiple listen to sink in but don't forget this is patchwork right now. I have to put different recordings together. To make them truly coherent some stuff needs to be re-recorded or done by 1 or 2 persons. Like the guitar parts in the rock section; the main theme should be played by one person in stead of 4 (2 being keyboard parts and 2 being guitar parts and they're all played by different people using different sounds). At this moment it's more about trying to see what chord sequences fit.  

I think I hear what you mean about drums starting earlier being a bit It Bitesey but I can't help thinking that Mr Dalton would have done a little more that just the three crashes in the build up (maybe closed hat on the beats between?). After the fourth crash, there's of lot of snare-off sound for the next 8 bars. I wonder if this could be a descending tom pattern?
I might try to illustrate this somehow but leave it as jutst my bable for now!

Good points. Will look into it.  

In terms of the new backings for the "main theme", I think the questionable bit might be because two voices are doing the shorter notes in the melody (in red in this highly technical description ) :-
    "Daah, Dah, Duuuh, Da Da Da Daaaah, Da Da Daaaaah".

I'm taking it out again for now.As I said I all ready found it questionable.
"Why leave it in then Ron?!"
"Uhm........ "  :?
 
:lol:

I think the pitch-bend was only +/- a whole tone (so 2 semitones up and 2 down). I like the sound you've chosen, I'll see if I can find something similar and post just the solo as an mp3.

Hearing all that gives me ideas for additioanl layers here and there so I might have a play tomorrow.  

Onwards....  

OK thanks! I now have to go out and find crime first. Will look into your editorial notes after that.
This is going well. We're molding this thing until it's perfect. And over 30 minutes of course.  

[Pedro]

Cool.
...but did you mean "find crime" or "fight crime"...or both?  

[RWA]

Cool.
...but did you mean "find crime" or "fight crime"...or both?  

Both! You first have to find it to fight it!  

[RWA]

I just uploaded 4 (count them) different "takes" of the HyperJemSolo.
All use the same midi (which I have tidied up a little more) but drive different voices.
One is just a hybrid of the other three voices mashed together.
Hopefully one of these will make a better inclusion in the working piece than that "interestingly pitch-bent" version.  

Couldn't really decide on this. Maybe others will have a preference. I've use the midi file itself for now.


Version 7 is uploaded. No major changes in the structure; just some small alterations:
- took drum suggestions by Pedro and ES in consideration and altered some
- took the mellotron part out again
- spend some time creating a new image file with (lot's of) remarks/requests

For anyone involved so far: please check the image file to see remarks and requests.
Saves me a lot of typing and explaining!  

Haven't got much time for this the rest of the week but that's not a bad thing. This must not turn into the Pedro/RWA show, right?!  

Please do comment on the progress/digress that's being made. I only know if stuff works as long as I get input.  My "breakdown the rock section into the reprise" is only a suggestion and is just one way of many to continue this song. If it's not liked I'll take it out again.

[mikebass]

I'll redo my intro bass on Friday. The 1st track was just a rough guide to see if it would fit. I'll play tighter this time around

[Pedro]

Thanks Ron, I'll have a listen to #7 when I get to my computer later on.
For the solo I'm really only bothered about getting the right notes and the right pitch-bend in there. The bend that was in #6 made the solo sound grim.
I'll upload the 'final' midi for the solo cos I tightened it up a bit. The problem I found was that some sounds react better to legato playing, pitch-bend and velocity than others...sometimes the fix was in editing the notes and not the sound. Anyway, I'm so happy that so much of it is Jem's original data!

I think the slow down to the acoustic bit is to die for with the string wash and the harmonic content of the guitar. It belongs in the piece somewhere for sure.

Agree about the need for more input from different sources, there were loads that have declared an interest so I hope we'll see hear from peeps with new ideas, lyrics, vocals, drums, etc,

[L33VEY]

Agree about the need for more input from different sources, there were loads that have declared an interest so I hope we'll see hear from peeps with new ideas, lyrics, vocals, drums, etc,

Not that I dared declare any interest, but I've been listening to the great work in progress and I've got a suggestion.

As you're starting off with the last bit of Milliontown, but Jem has already done the sequel with Wonderland (I think), then is this the prequel?  So we join our unnamed 28 year old "Inside the Worm Cathedral" in St Giles churchyard.  With a zombie brain still working and oscillating between periods of calm reflection and frantic questioning?  Could end with the knock on the coffin lid by Death.

Some starter lyrics for those better than me to work on.

Starts at 0.18s
In this death
Chances don't come round twice
I fell safe inside
I feel time drift by
For Hours - and Hours
Ends 0.54s as guitar kicks in

[Pedro]

I guess it might be an "Inbetwequel" then.

Not sure I can place where you mean for the lyrics, but I like 'em.

Did you mean "I fell safe" or "I feel safe"? "Fell" is kinda quirky.

[gav]

I would help with the lyrics effort, but I'm listening to AC/DC at the moment, so the only lyrics that are coming into my head are either to do with rock, hell or balls....











...big balls!

[Jamyu]

This is an amazing piece of stuff...

That blues'd up milliontown coda is awesome

I can't compose as well as you guys xD

Composition's never been my strong point, so I don't know if I'm good enough for this

2nd: The musical lines sound like they've been produced by good software. I don't have this either ;_: The best I have is sibelius 3, cakewalk which both sound midi-fied

[RWA]

Lyric suggestions! Excellent!  
I'm very eager to hear some vocals on this.

I'm just gonna sit back and watch what happens for the rest of this week. Throw in ideas / suggestions / comments / rants / accusations / dead threads and weapons of mass destructions in the mean time. If you happen to be able to record and upload anything while you're at it then that would be a nice bonus!  8-)