Author Topic: Do I Have A Problem?  (Read 8580 times)

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Offline tomskerous

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Re: Do I Have A Problem?
« Reply #30 on: December 11, 2008, 02:54:39 PM »
Ironically Tony Banks says he despised the thing, but it was the best they had at the time.

I guess Mellotrons are great at that particular stuff - if you're trying to make records that sound like they're from that era or draw heavily on it as a reference/inspiration/place to nick ideas from when you've run out.

As ever, I guess the membership is divided about whether Frost (or indeed any musicians since 1985) should still be trying to do that.
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Offline Mouse

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Re: Do I Have A Problem?
« Reply #31 on: December 11, 2008, 04:01:13 PM »
There's a fine line between Progressive Rock bands and Regressive Progressive Rock bands...

Offline vocalnick

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Re: Do I Have A Problem?
« Reply #32 on: December 11, 2008, 11:03:27 PM »
Quote from: "tomskerous"
I guess Mellotrons are great at that particular stuff - if you're trying to make records that sound like they're from that era or draw heavily on it as a reference/inspiration/place to nick ideas from when you've run out.

Arrg! That's a pretty judgement-loaded way to look at it. The only reason one might use a mellotron sound is because they're trying to reference or lean on older music? Really?

What if it just happens to be the sound that works? What if you've tried "real" string samples and they sound too clean, and the wibbly-wobbly (timey-wimey?) texture of a mellotron gives you just the organic texture you want?

I don't love cliches, and I certainly celebrate innovation, but you can use any established sound as a crutch, and I don't understand why the mellotron has become the sole target of vitriol on this point (other than perhaps "because Jem said so").

Nobody heard You/I or Wonderland and thought "oh dear lord, he's using a piano? That's sooooo 300 years ago". And listen to Andy still using that tired old approach of hitting wooden tubes with skins stretched over them. That's thousands of years old. Can't he do something new?

But really what I wanted to say was:

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Offline LivingForever

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Re: Do I Have A Problem?
« Reply #33 on: December 11, 2008, 11:09:52 PM »
Quote from: "SerFox"

But people who use the mellotron like this need to be bludgeoned to death with the damn thing, because it's fucking ridiculous.

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=yrXtmKGkSa4

I challenge someone to make a prog record using those ridiculous auto-rhythms! Love it...
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Offline Brom

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Re: Do I Have A Problem?
« Reply #34 on: December 11, 2008, 11:52:38 PM »
I just had this vision. Remember the Laurel and Hardy film where they are trying to shift a piano down some stairs, I'm imagining a video starring Jem who is trying to shift a mellotron with say the help of the rest of Frost*, then mixed in with the old Bernard Cribbins song about a group of guys trying to shift a piano.

Not right said Fred, but "Right said Jem", and with all the cups of tea there would be plenty of scope for biscuits too!  :D

Ohh look, here it is on You Tube....   :)
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Offline tomskerous

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Re: Do I Have A Problem?
« Reply #35 on: December 11, 2008, 11:55:52 PM »
Quote from: "vocalnick"
Quote from: "tomskerous"
I guess Mellotrons are great at that particular stuff - if you're trying to make records that sound like they're from that era or draw heavily on it as a reference/inspiration/place to nick ideas from when you've run out.

Arrg! That's a pretty judgement-loaded way to look at it. The only reason one might use a mellotron sound is because they're trying to reference or lean on older music? Really?

No, not the only reason. But it's *usually* the reason. :-)

My opinion, as I said further up, is that Cardiacs, Blur and many more have used Mellotrons post-prog to great effect - but they've been using the sound as a sound, to achieve and effect in their (largely standalone) track. They've not been using it to draw on its cultural baggage.

The upshot for me is that if you come onstage with a mellotron, you'd better make sure you've got a Kaoss pad, a laptop and a huge rack of samplers next to it or my heart is already sinking in anticipation. Because it's more likely that you're about to try to draw on cliche rather than creating something new.

(Similarly, I love my JX10 and all its huge rich pads - but I know they're unusable today lest I sound like a 'Go West' throwback. Instead I have to work really effing hard to make it produce sounds outside the 'comfy' late 80s zone - doubly hard as that was the time I was learning to play and program. And yes, I do sometimes have a wallow in the classic fat strings patch, but it would only ever be for personal consumption.)
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Offline vocalnick

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Re: Do I Have A Problem?
« Reply #36 on: December 12, 2008, 12:32:00 AM »
Quote from: "tomskerous"
No, not the only reason. But it's *usually* the reason. :-)

My opinion, as I said further up, is that Cardiacs, Blur and many more have used Mellotrons post-prog to great effect - but they've been using the sound as a sound, to achieve and effect in their (largely standalone) track. They've not been using it to draw on its cultural baggage.

Yes, but in fairness, if you're going to refer to things you've said earlier in the thread, then I'm going to have to pay closer attention, and I don't see how that's fair...  :P
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Offline Dodie

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Re: Do I Have A Problem?
« Reply #37 on: December 12, 2008, 09:07:02 AM »
Quote from: "vocalnick"

Nobody heard You/I or Wonderland and thought "oh dear lord, he's using a piano? That's sooooo 300 years ago".

Indeed, almost bang on with the date of the very earliest known piano-like keyboard, built by Bartolomeo Cristofori, keeper of the Medici's musical instruments in Florence. An inventory dated 1700 lists an instrument that he'd designed called "arpi cimbalo del piano e forte" (i.e. a harpsichord that could do soft and loud!), though the earliest extant "pianos" Cristofori built all date from the 1720s. Here's one of them:



Makes the Mellotron and Moog look uber-modern, doesn't it?

Cheers

David

Offline Mouse

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Re: Do I Have A Problem?
« Reply #38 on: December 12, 2008, 11:42:34 AM »
Orange and black keys? The freak!  :P

Offline tomskerous

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Re: Do I Have A Problem?
« Reply #39 on: December 12, 2008, 01:11:26 PM »
And every time the roadies dropped it it would go out of bloody tune too!
I was a victim of goose-flirting the other day.
This bleeding great goose came up to me and wanted a light.
I said no.
Goose, there\'ll be no flirting today.

THUNDERFROG!!!!!!!!

Offline vocalnick

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Re: Do I Have A Problem?
« Reply #40 on: December 13, 2008, 01:19:09 AM »
Still probably more reliable than a mellotron though :)
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Offline Mouse

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Re: Do I Have A Problem?
« Reply #41 on: December 15, 2008, 06:42:55 PM »
More reliable than a Mac as well. Grrr...

Offline vocalnick

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Re: Do I Have A Problem?
« Reply #42 on: December 15, 2008, 10:41:26 PM »
Don't be silly, Macs always just work - they say so in their advertising so it must be true.
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Offline Mikey

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Re: Do I Have A Problem?
« Reply #43 on: December 15, 2008, 10:44:02 PM »
Do I Have A Problem?

Not now  :D  :D  :D  :D  :D  :D  :D  :D
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Offline gr8gonzo

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Re: Do I Have A Problem?
« Reply #44 on: December 15, 2008, 10:48:03 PM »
Quote from: "Mikey"
Do I Have A Problem?

Not now  :D  :D  :D  :D  :D  :D  :D  :D

That has a distinct look about it.  :D
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